Usa Forum - Re: Pitch Metaphor - rec.music.classical.guitar

Matt Faunce

7/15/2011 10:40:00 PM

On Friday, July 15, 2011 12:54:42 PM UTC-4, Slogoin wrote:
>
> The studies are clear that up-down, thick-thin and others are not
> reversed even by people who don't use the metaphor in their language.

I know. I never said anything to indicate anybody reverses them. In fact, I explained why they aren't reversed.

> Things like left-right are not intuitive and not used as metaphors for
> pitch. I don't know how you can read it any other way.

I dont read it any other way. This is why I'm frustrated. How you could read what I wrote and come up with the exact opposite of what I intended.

> > Thanks for your reference to Chomsky.
> > I will get around to reading him sometime.
>
> Kinda hard to avoid him if you study linguistics.
>
> > I hope by now you understand that my thinking
> > is in line with Peirce and W. James.
>
> Not sure what you mean but you do bring up Peirce a lot. I don't
> think you can really understand him without understanding things like
> the cube root trick but then that's me... maths is not separate from
> philosophy.

There's a lot to him. I would like to increase my math skills, infact I've been working on it. But what Peirce calls 'logica utens' is more important. I question your capacity in that.
http://www.helsinki.fi/science/commens/terms/logica...

Here's an article that explains surprisingly well almost everything I've been trying to say:
http://www.iep.utm.edu...

> > This line of thinking continued with John Dewey, Hilary Putnam, Joseph Margolis, and others.
>
> I've read some. Is Wittgenstein on your list too? Not much into
> reading philosophy these days.

Yes, but behind some others.

> > Maybe you'd get more out of reading them instead of me.
>
> I've been reading mostly about music education lately. I'm involved
> with a new non-profit that promotes music education by donating
> instruments to schools and helping to get music programs started all
> over this globe. It's more interesting to me than philosophy. Maybe
> I'm just getting old...
>
> > I'm done.
>
> Your frustration seems to have gotten the best of you. I'm not
> attacking you but you are reacting like I am.

I don't think you are attacking me, nor was I reacting as if you were.

> I do not know how you could miss the point about metaphors not being
> random associations in those studies.

I'm frustrated because you think I think that. I don't. Nor did I ever say anything to suggest it.

Matt

2 Answers

Slogoin

7/15/2011 11:26:00 PM

On Jul 15, 3:39 pm, Matt Faunce <mattfau...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I never said anything to indicate anybody reverses them.

Which is why they are not random and nobody uses left-right as
metaphors for pitch.

> In fact, I explained why they aren't reversed.

No, you gave a theory that sounded plausible. You may be right and
there may be much more to it than that. I personally do not think that
all there is to it and in fact think it's only the tip of the iceberg.

> I dont read it any other way. This is why I'm frustrated.
> How you could read what I wrote and come up with the exact
> opposite of what I intended.

Don't know. You seemed to be saying that you could use any old
metaphor. Isn't that what you said about a left-right for piano
players? The philosophy may be sidetracking us from the pitch metaphor
topic.

> There's a lot to him. I would like to increase
> my math skills, infact I've been working on it.

Interesting, how? I'm interested in how adults learn maths on their
own.

But what Peirce calls 'logica utens' is more important. I question
your capacity in that

>http://www.helsinki.fi/science/commens/terms/logica...

I suck at what most people call good reasoning. I can't see only in
black and white.

> Here's an article that explains surprisingly
> well almost everything I've been trying to say:
> http://www.iep.utm.edu...

I liked this:

"To say that cognition is embodied means that it arises from bodily
interactions with the world. From this point of view, cognition
depends on the kinds of experiences that come from having a body with
particular perceptual and motor capacities that are inseparably linked
and that together form the matrix within which memory, emotion,
language, and all other aspects of life are meshed. The contemporary
notion of embodied cognition stands in contrast to the prevailing
cognitivist stance which sees the mind as a device to manipulate
symbols and is thus concerned with the formal rules and processes by
which the symbols appropriately represent the world (xx)."

Though I don't see it the two as mutually exclusive and I doubt that
many people do.

> I don't think you are attacking me, nor was I reacting as if you were.

Weird. I thought, "I'm done." was kinda like... well, you'd given up
and concluded it was all my fault for not understanding you and not
thinking clearly. All you kept doing was referring me to philosopher's
writings as that would help me learn what you already know.

> I'm frustrated because you think I think that. I don't. Nor did I ever say anything to suggest it.

Works both ways. I don't get what you are driving at about pitch
metaphors. Maybe restating would help.

Pitch metaphors are not random associations and reveal things about
our thinking.

Che

7/16/2011 12:05:00 AM

On Jul 15, 6:26 pm, Slogoin <la...@deack.net> wrote:
>
> Pitch metaphors are not random associations and reveal things about
> our thinking.<

http://chriscrawfordphoto.com/fine_art/portfolio/doll-house/images/fullsize/d...

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Re: Pitch Metaphor

Matt Faunce

Slogoin

Che

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