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Paladins in PvP?

petertrei

3/23/2012 12:39:00 PM

I've pretty much geared out my Pally's PvE Holy Spec (Vamoose, Misha-
US) with VP, LFR, and 10 man DS gear. VPs are starting to go to his
Ret spec. Now-useless JPs are stacking up.

I'm toying with the idea of creating a PvP gearset, starting by
trading in JPs for Honor.

How are Pallies in PvP? Are they better as DPS, or as heals? How does
arena vs BG effect this?

I presume I'll need to respec to switch between PvP and PvE. Any good
sites to L2P, with suggested builds and rotations?

pt
9 Answers

Shiflet

3/23/2012 2:03:00 PM

0


>
> How are Pallies in PvP? Are they better as DPS, or as heals? How does
> arena vs BG effect this?

DPS, they hit hard...while Avenging Wrath is up. When it's not up,
they're not real impressive. For starters, they are a melee class with
a gap closer that is subpar, they have no snare, and with only 1 stun
it's just about guaranteed to get trinketed out of. And any decent
PvPer with a dispel(or worse, Spellsteal) will take wings as soon as
you pop it, others will save their CC until you pop it then just kite
you. Tank classes will usually pop their defensive CDs and weather the
storm and blood DKs will just heal through it. And once Wings is gone,
you're one of the least threatening enemies on the field. This is
especially true in arena as you're more likely to encounter people who
are more adept at CC timing and dispelling, especially once you get
past the lower level brackets. In random BGs you're more likely to
find people who aren't real skilled so dispels are less common so you
are more likely to get your full burst out. But even then, a smart
player can drastically reduce your effectiveness with one single cast
and getting AW stolen by a mage will really ruin your day. Also, one
more minor tip, learn what the DK Dark Simulacrum debuff looks like,
and don't pop wings if he has it on you. DKs won't normally use Dark
Sim on a pally, but if they're alone against you(or if everyone else
nearby is melee), they just might, in hopes of catching Divine Shield,
Hammer of Justice, or wings(I've taken both AW and bubble on my DK,
and I can say it's immensely satisfying to watch a pally pop wings as
he engages you, only to pop my simmed copy and tear him up). Do make
sure you make the most of Hand of Freedom and Rebuke, and don't forget
that even though Repentance breaks on damage it can still be used as
an interrupt as well...if you use Rebuke the opponent might think they
are free to cast something longer without fear of interruption, and
then you can Repentance them to stop it as well.

Heals OTOH...pally healers are incredibly effective. Once a holy pally
gets geared up in PvP gear, and gets the hang of what they're doing...
it will generally take 3 people to take him down, often more.

petertrei

3/23/2012 4:03:00 PM

0

On Mar 23, 10:02 am, Shiflet <rshif...@charter.net> wrote:
> > How are Pallies in PvP? Are they better as DPS, or as heals? How does
> > arena vs BG effect this?
>
> DPS, they hit hard...while Avenging Wrath is up. When it's not up,
> they're not real impressive. For starters, they are a melee class with
> a gap closer that is subpar, they have no snare, and with only 1 stun
> it's just about guaranteed to get trinketed out of. And any decent
> PvPer with a dispel(or worse, Spellsteal) will take wings as soon as
> you pop it, others will save their CC until you pop it then just kite
> you. Tank classes will usually pop their defensive CDs and weather the
> storm and blood DKs will just heal through it. And once Wings is gone,
> you're one of the least threatening enemies on the field. This is
> especially true in arena as you're more likely to encounter people who
> are more adept at CC timing and dispelling, especially once you get
> past the lower level brackets. In random BGs you're more likely to
> find people who aren't real skilled so dispels are less common so you
> are more likely to get your full burst out. But even then, a smart
> player can drastically reduce your effectiveness with one single cast
> and getting AW stolen by a mage will really ruin your day. Also, one
> more minor tip, learn what the DK Dark Simulacrum debuff looks like,
> and don't pop wings if he has it on you. DKs won't normally use Dark
> Sim on a pally, but if they're alone against you(or if everyone else
> nearby is melee), they just might, in hopes of catching Divine Shield,
> Hammer of Justice, or wings(I've taken both AW and bubble on my DK,
> and I can say it's immensely satisfying to watch a pally pop wings as
> he engages you, only to pop my simmed copy and tear him up). Do make
> sure you make the most of Hand of Freedom and Rebuke, and don't forget
> that even though Repentance breaks on damage it can still be used as
> an interrupt as well...if you use Rebuke the opponent might think they
> are free to cast something longer without fear of interruption, and
> then you can Repentance them to stop it as well.
>
> Heals OTOH...pally healers are incredibly effective. Once a holy pally
> gets geared up in PvP gear, and gets the hang of what they're doing...
> it will generally take 3 people to take him down, often more.

Interesting - it looks like the healer role is the way to go (the
classic way to defend against spellsteal, as you know, is to macro it
with another, disposable buff that will be the one stolen).

I've done PvP healing a few times, but in wotlk arenas it mainly
resulted in my being targeted and killed, rapidly.

In BC BGs, I could at times be quite useful, especially in Alterac
Valley. But I never really worked at getting my resilience up very
high.

pt

ald

3/24/2012 2:14:00 AM

0

On Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:03:05 -0700 (PDT), Cryptoengineer
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 23, 10:02 am, Shiflet <rshif...@charter.net> wrote:
>> > How are Pallies in PvP? Are they better as DPS, or as heals? How does
>> > arena vs BG effect this?
>>
>> DPS, they hit hard...while Avenging Wrath is up. When it's not up,
>> they're not real impressive. For starters, they are a melee class with
>> a gap closer that is subpar, they have no snare, and with only 1 stun
>> it's just about guaranteed to get trinketed out of. And any decent
>> PvPer with a dispel(or worse, Spellsteal) will take wings as soon as
>> you pop it, others will save their CC until you pop it then just kite
>> you. Tank classes will usually pop their defensive CDs and weather the
>> storm and blood DKs will just heal through it. And once Wings is gone,
>> you're one of the least threatening enemies on the field. This is
>> especially true in arena as you're more likely to encounter people who
>> are more adept at CC timing and dispelling, especially once you get
>> past the lower level brackets. In random BGs you're more likely to
>> find people who aren't real skilled so dispels are less common so you
>> are more likely to get your full burst out. But even then, a smart
>> player can drastically reduce your effectiveness with one single cast
>> and getting AW stolen by a mage will really ruin your day. Also, one
>> more minor tip, learn what the DK Dark Simulacrum debuff looks like,
>> and don't pop wings if he has it on you. DKs won't normally use Dark
>> Sim on a pally, but if they're alone against you(or if everyone else
>> nearby is melee), they just might, in hopes of catching Divine Shield,
>> Hammer of Justice, or wings(I've taken both AW and bubble on my DK,
>> and I can say it's immensely satisfying to watch a pally pop wings as
>> he engages you, only to pop my simmed copy and tear him up). Do make
>> sure you make the most of Hand of Freedom and Rebuke, and don't forget
>> that even though Repentance breaks on damage it can still be used as
>> an interrupt as well...if you use Rebuke the opponent might think they
>> are free to cast something longer without fear of interruption, and
>> then you can Repentance them to stop it as well.
>>
>> Heals OTOH...pally healers are incredibly effective. Once a holy pally
>> gets geared up in PvP gear, and gets the hang of what they're doing...
>> it will generally take 3 people to take him down, often more.
>
>Interesting - it looks like the healer role is the way to go (the
>classic way to defend against spellsteal, as you know, is to macro it
>with another, disposable buff that will be the one stolen).
>
>I've done PvP healing a few times, but in wotlk arenas it mainly
>resulted in my being targeted and killed, rapidly.
>
>In BC BGs, I could at times be quite useful, especially in Alterac
>Valley. But I never really worked at getting my resilience up very
>high.
>
>pt

Healer role is certainly the most fun, for me ;-) Yeah, as a healer of
any kind in PvP (especially TB) you need to understand that there's a
big red + over your head (if you don't understand that reference, get
Healers have to Die from Curse, invaluable even to healers in PvP),
and Pally's are the ones best equipped to deal with that.

That said, I've never seriously tried any other role for a Pally in
PvP, was still in Prot when leveling (and that worked reasonably well
for AV) but specced Holy as soon as I hit 85, so I could heal in TB,
and have never looked back ;-)

--
ald
reply via email to ald_007_1999 at yahoo dot com

Shiflet

3/24/2012 7:14:00 AM

0


> Interesting - it looks like the healer role is the way to go (the
> classic way to defend against spellsteal, as you know, is to macro it
> with another, disposable buff that will be the one stolen).

Spellsteal doesn't have a CD, even if he grabs the fake buff, he can
just Spellsteal again. Spamming Spellsteal can be a mana drain, but
casting it a second time to take your wings is worth it.

Debbie

3/25/2012 10:48:00 AM

0


> Valley. But I never really worked at getting my resilience up very
> high.

And this is your problem. To be able to heal with at least 1 dps on you you
MUST have around 4500 resilience and that is every single piece of pvp gear.
Even with that a good dos can kill you or CC you while he kills others but
without 4000+ resilience you cant be useful as healer unless the other team
is so dumb to let you cast... and if the other team is so stupid to let a
healer cast freely means you already won.

petertrei

3/25/2012 9:29:00 PM

0

On Mar 25, 6:47 am, "Shammy" <n...@nothing.com> wrote:
> > Valley. But I never really worked at getting my resilience up very
> > high.
>
> And this is your problem. To be able to heal with at least 1 dps on you you
> MUST have around 4500 resilience and that is every single piece of pvp gear.
> Even with that a good dos can kill you or CC you while he kills others but
> without 4000+ resilience you cant be useful as healer unless the other team
> is so dumb to let you cast... and if the other team is so stupid to let a
> healer cast freely means you already won.

My understanding is that this is one of the problems with resilience.
Up till recently, it was pretty useless until you got to a certain
(high) threshold, at which point you became essentially invulnerable
to people who weren't *very* well geared.

I've heard that recent changes have flattened the curve a lot - your
protection rise gradually over a longer range of values. I also
understand resilience goes away in Mists.

pt

ting

3/26/2012 4:43:00 PM

0

On Mar 25, 5:28 pm, Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I also understand resilience goes away in Mists.

Nope, it's just being renamed to PvP Power. PvP Power is more
complicated than resilience, but the end result is the same - you'll
still stack it for PvP.

The only benefit to PvE players is that everyone will have a built in
20% damage reduction against other players, which is like starting out
with 2000 resilience.
--
// T.Hsu

Debbie

3/27/2012 11:03:00 AM

0



"Ting Hsu" <ting@thsu.org> wrote in message
news:5143a20d-df39-4da3-8e0e-9101d8e3d638@n5g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 25, 5:28 pm, Cryptoengineer <petert...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I also understand resilience goes away in Mists.
>
> Nope, it's just being renamed to PvP Power. PvP Power is more
> complicated than resilience, but the end result is the same - you'll
> still stack it for PvP.
>
> The only benefit to PvE players is that everyone will have a built in
> 20% damage reduction against other players, which is like starting out
> with 2000 resilience.
> --


Just checked on my panda monk, actually you still have resilience AND pvp
power.
Resilience is still the same as it is now.
PvP Power= Increases damage done to players and their pets and minions. And
increases healing done in pvp zones by 0% (on my llvl 8 monk)

Shiflet

3/30/2012 9:36:00 AM

0


> And this is your problem. To be able to heal with at least 1 dps on you you
> MUST have around 4500 resilience and that is every single piece of pvp gear.
> Even with that a good dos can kill you or CC you while he kills others

Sorry, but the above is flat out not true. I've routinely seen disc
priests and holy pallies with less resilience than that require three
DPS to burn them down. And in NO way will a single DPS stop a half
decent healer with even 3k resilience unless the DPS is capable of
both massive burst AND massive control(ie, a sub rogue or a good frost
DK).

> but without 4000+ resilience you cant be useful as healer unless the other team
> is so dumb to let you cast... and if the other team is so stupid to let a
> healer cast freely means you already won.

A good team won't LET the opponent stop their healer from casting. If
I see someone on my healer, I death grip them away then chains of ice
to take pressure off the healer. A feral or rogue can likewise peel a
DPS off a healer, even a warrior can if he's competent. As for not
lettting the healers cast, even if you aren't being peeled off the
healer, there are still instants and various talents that prevent
interrupt if you really need to get a heal off. Take an arms warrior
for example-he may Pummel the pally's Flash of Light, but the pally
will be able to cast again before Pummel is off CD. The warrior can
Throwdown the pally's next cast, then if the pally trinkets, what
next? The warrior's interrupts are on CD, and the pally can cast
freely, and with a couple or even a single cast(which they will be
able to get off) they've just negated all the damage you did to them,
even with only 3k resilience.