[lnkForumImage]
TotalShareware - Download Free Software
Usa Forum
 Home | Login | Register | Search 


 

Forums >

alt.games.warcraft

Raid Finder

Catriona R

11/1/2011 1:07:00 AM


So as someone who hasn't raided in 2 years or so, I ignored this new
feature, but my bf has had a few goes on the PTR and it actually looks
alright for a bit of fun and seeing new bosses, not so much for
gearing up though (he's achieved one kill in many many attempts lol).
Haven't done it myself yet but watched enough to get a fair idea of
the good and bad:

Pros -
Fast queueing, and don't need to win the approval of "link ach and
have insane high ilvl" types to actually get in (no longer need to
prove you've done the fight to be able to do it to get the proof that
you've done it...)
It *does* have an ilvl requirement though (not sure what atm, maybe
about 365) so your group has at least some chance of doing suitable
dps etc to actually get anywhere
No commitment, don't have to set aside blocks of time for it, and
don't even have to stay long if you don't want to/find it stressful
(burning out on being committed to 2-3 evenings per week was my major
issue in the past, jumping in for 30 mins to try something new will
suit me better)
25-man, which while I don't like larger groups for long periods of
time, is actually handy when you're new to a fight, since you're less
likely to wipe the raid through making mistakes/getting killed, and
also less likely to be noticed and bitched at if you get it wrong;-)

Cons -
Wipe. Wipe wipe wipe. Um, yeah. Don't expect to actually kill
anything, although once more people know the tactics it should improve
Idiots ninjapulling and wiping the raid before tactics are explained.
Repeatedly.
People not listening to tactics, or just plain not thinking about the
information given them*
2-5 people "Offline" after every wipe, wasting time on kicking them
before requeueing
People in general lol, it's the unpredictability of pugs that will
make many of these raids fail badly.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out in the end but I think I
will at least give it a shot when it goes live, just to experience
some of the fights, even if I rarely/never complete them, it'll suit
me well to be able to try things without the pressure of being
committed to staying/going regularly. If it sucks, well hey, no need
to go again, but the crossrealm deal and the large group size gets rid
of the personal feeling of smaller groups or groups with people you'll
meet regularly, which puts me off grouping normally (I'm thinskinned,
don't like being blamed for things, but probably nobody will know who
to blame for anything in a 25-man pug so less chance of that!) Should
be worth a try at least.


*Madness of Deathwing was just opened up tonight, nobody knew tactics,
all were figuring it out as they went along, ok, wipes expected. So,
when a big automated raid warning comes up: "[forgot full name]
Corruption is attacking Ysera! Protect her!", and is repeated, several
times, do you:

a) Look towards Ysera, notice a big tentacle called something
Corruption and figure attacking it may be a good idea
or
b) Tunnel vision away, continue to nuke Deathwing's claw, ignoring the
Corruption and letting Ysera die.

Guess what half the raid did - now sure, they'd never seen it before
but the raid warning was a pretty big hint, y'know...? I figured it
out long before Ysera died and the attempt failed, and I knew nothing
about the raid as a whole never mind that fight :-P
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (85 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (85 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (82 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)
7 Answers

Matthew

11/1/2011 1:12:00 AM

0


"Catriona R" <catrionarNOSPAM@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:9h8v1qF9b2U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> So as someone who hasn't raided in 2 years or so, I ignored this new
> feature, but my bf has had a few goes on the PTR and it actually looks
> alright for a bit of fun and seeing new bosses, not so much for
> gearing up though (he's achieved one kill in many many attempts lol).
> Haven't done it myself yet but watched enough to get a fair idea of
> the good and bad:
>
> Pros -
> Fast queueing, and don't need to win the approval of "link ach and
> have insane high ilvl" types to actually get in (no longer need to
> prove you've done the fight to be able to do it to get the proof that
> you've done it...)
> It *does* have an ilvl requirement though (not sure what atm, maybe
> about 365) so your group has at least some chance of doing suitable
> dps etc to actually get anywhere
> No commitment, don't have to set aside blocks of time for it, and
> don't even have to stay long if you don't want to/find it stressful
> (burning out on being committed to 2-3 evenings per week was my major
> issue in the past, jumping in for 30 mins to try something new will
> suit me better)
> 25-man, which while I don't like larger groups for long periods of
> time, is actually handy when you're new to a fight, since you're less
> likely to wipe the raid through making mistakes/getting killed, and
> also less likely to be noticed and bitched at if you get it wrong;-)
>
> Cons -
> Wipe. Wipe wipe wipe. Um, yeah. Don't expect to actually kill
> anything, although once more people know the tactics it should improve
> Idiots ninjapulling and wiping the raid before tactics are explained.
> Repeatedly.
> People not listening to tactics, or just plain not thinking about the
> information given them*
> 2-5 people "Offline" after every wipe, wasting time on kicking them
> before requeueing
> People in general lol, it's the unpredictability of pugs that will
> make many of these raids fail badly.
>
> Will be interesting to see how it turns out in the end but I think I
> will at least give it a shot when it goes live, just to experience
> some of the fights, even if I rarely/never complete them, it'll suit
> me well to be able to try things without the pressure of being
> committed to staying/going regularly. If it sucks, well hey, no need
> to go again, but the crossrealm deal and the large group size gets rid
> of the personal feeling of smaller groups or groups with people you'll
> meet regularly, which puts me off grouping normally (I'm thinskinned,
> don't like being blamed for things, but probably nobody will know who
> to blame for anything in a 25-man pug so less chance of that!) Should
> be worth a try at least.
>
>
> *Madness of Deathwing was just opened up tonight, nobody knew tactics,
> all were figuring it out as they went along, ok, wipes expected. So,
> when a big automated raid warning comes up: "[forgot full name]
> Corruption is attacking Ysera! Protect her!", and is repeated, several
> times, do you:
>
> a) Look towards Ysera, notice a big tentacle called something
> Corruption and figure attacking it may be a good idea
> or
> b) Tunnel vision away, continue to nuke Deathwing's claw, ignoring the
> Corruption and letting Ysera die.
>
> Guess what half the raid did - now sure, they'd never seen it before
> but the raid warning was a pretty big hint, y'know...? I figured it
> out long before Ysera died and the attempt failed, and I knew nothing
> about the raid as a whole never mind that fight :-P
> --
> EU-Draenor:
> Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
> Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
> Buinne (85 Troll Shaman)
> Eilnich (85 Blood Elf Warlock)
> Ruire (82 Blood Elf Paladin)
> Balgair (80 Human Rogue)


I cant actually wait for it
My main a survival hunter is the only raiding toon right now we are working
on Rag
my 6 other toons are not raiding only one is not friendly with firelands. I
cant wait to use it since it is a pain to try and run with 2 or 3 different
raid groups


usenet

11/1/2011 9:11:00 AM

0

Matthew <iamacatslaveand@proudtoserve.com> wrote:


>
> I cant actually wait for it
> My main a survival hunter is the only raiding toon right now we are working
> on Rag
> my 6 other toons are not raiding only one is not friendly with firelands. I
> cant wait to use it since it is a pain to try and run with 2 or 3 different
> raid groups

I'm looking forward to it too. But I actually need to do some dungeons
on my hunter, as I haven't done any! Do I start with normal dungeons,
or jump into heroics? I'm geared enough with the heroics, but have no
idea what i'm doing :D

I guess with the dungeon finder it doesn't much matter, I doubt I will
be the most idiotic in the group...

T.

S U N risr

11/1/2011 11:42:00 AM

0

On 10/31/2011 9:07 PM, Catriona R wrote:
>

><SNIP>
>
> Guess what half the raid did - now sure, they'd never seen it before
> but the raid warning was a pretty big hint, y'know...? I figured it
> out long before Ysera died and the attempt failed, and I knew nothing
> about the raid as a whole never mind that fight :-P

It'll be interesting...But I think it'll be a game changer. Just not
sure for the good or bad. One of the things about raiding, was that
you built a team...a guild...That's what defined your success. I'm sure
the top guilds will continue to do what they do, but for the most part
it's solo'ing the game out a bit and making guilds more a social thing.
Raiding was the one thing left that the top players had, because
is/was difficult without doing it right and having the right players,
mentalities and style.,,,,basically a good fit of 10 or 25 people, not
geared "toons".... If they take that away, what do the raiders have
left? Dungeons used to be a exclusive deal as well...Clearing one could
take 2+ hours, plus took a while to get a group together if pugging,
but mostly they were guild events...Running 1 dungeon was a evening
affair, but now it's about using them as a stepping stone, and blasting
through it asap, maybe doing 2-3 in a row one night. Is that the future
of raids? If so, what's the next thing on the horizon above raids to
look for? If you blast through the content of a new expansion within 3
-5 months, what's the point in sticking around? I dunno - I probably am
just being pessimistic - have to see it I guess. And this is coming
from someone who can't raid right now or have to pug because the guild
is on break. I guess I should be excited about this as it would open up
an easy way for me to do it, but I guess that's just it...too easy to
do it.

Time will tell if Bliz is shooting themselves in the foot making it fast
and easy... Sure they initially will get a big influx of players back,
but they won't stay long I fear....

Catriona R

11/1/2011 12:34:00 PM

0


On Tue, 1 Nov 2011 09:11:07 +0000, usenet@trooperlooper.co.uk.invalid
(Trooper) wrote:

>Matthew <iamacatslaveand@proudtoserve.com> wrote:
>>
>> I cant actually wait for it
>> My main a survival hunter is the only raiding toon right now we are working
>> on Rag
>> my 6 other toons are not raiding only one is not friendly with firelands. I
>> cant wait to use it since it is a pain to try and run with 2 or 3 different
>> raid groups
>
>I'm looking forward to it too. But I actually need to do some dungeons
>on my hunter, as I haven't done any! Do I start with normal dungeons,
>or jump into heroics? I'm geared enough with the heroics, but have no
>idea what i'm doing :D
>
>I guess with the dungeon finder it doesn't much matter, I doubt I will
>be the most idiotic in the group...

Given the mechanics involved it may be wise to try normal first, some
places apparently have stuff that needs learned. I'm stuck on the same
question myself; plenty geared for heroics but haven't run any 5-mans
other than the first two about a year ago (so I barely remember
them!), so suspect I'd better run a normal or two first. Really need
to get round to that soon, before I look even more silly running stuff
I outgear by a mile! :-)
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (85 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (85 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (82 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)

Catriona R

11/1/2011 12:43:00 PM

0


On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:42:10 -0400, IYM <"S U N risr"@optonline.net>
wrote:

>On 10/31/2011 9:07 PM, Catriona R wrote:
>>
>
>><SNIP>
>>
>> Guess what half the raid did - now sure, they'd never seen it before
>> but the raid warning was a pretty big hint, y'know...? I figured it
>> out long before Ysera died and the attempt failed, and I knew nothing
>> about the raid as a whole never mind that fight :-P
>
>It'll be interesting...But I think it'll be a game changer. Just not
>sure for the good or bad. One of the things about raiding, was that
>you built a team...a guild...That's what defined your success. I'm sure
>the top guilds will continue to do what they do, but for the most part
>it's solo'ing the game out a bit and making guilds more a social thing.
> Raiding was the one thing left that the top players had, because
>is/was difficult without doing it right and having the right players,
>mentalities and style.,,,,basically a good fit of 10 or 25 people, not
>geared "toons".... If they take that away, what do the raiders have
>left? Dungeons used to be a exclusive deal as well...Clearing one could
>take 2+ hours, plus took a while to get a group together if pugging,
>but mostly they were guild events...Running 1 dungeon was a evening
>affair, but now it's about using them as a stepping stone, and blasting
>through it asap, maybe doing 2-3 in a row one night. Is that the future
>of raids? If so, what's the next thing on the horizon above raids to
>look for? If you blast through the content of a new expansion within 3
>-5 months, what's the point in sticking around? I dunno - I probably am
>just being pessimistic - have to see it I guess. And this is coming
>from someone who can't raid right now or have to pug because the guild
>is on break. I guess I should be excited about this as it would open up
>an easy way for me to do it, but I guess that's just it...too easy to
>do it.

Well, raiders will still have that, for the normal and heroic versions
- people pug those already (using server-based pugs and a lot of
elitist achievement demanding etc) so it's not like it's exclusive to
guilds even now. And given the difficulty in coordinating 25 random
people, I highly doubt anybody who's in a guild capable of raiding
would let raid finder replace guild raids, more likely they'd use it
for alts, or for having an extra shot at loot if something just won't
drop.

What it may do, is make those guilds who struggle for numbers be able
to do the raids more easily when they're short - a guild that has,
say, 2 10-man raids, would like to do 25-man but usually end up short,
can get them together and pull in a few pugs to run 25-man on the raid
finder.

>Time will tell if Bliz is shooting themselves in the foot making it fast
>and easy... Sure they initially will get a big influx of players back,
>but they won't stay long I fear....

Well if they don't keep using the tool long, then it's hardly hurting
the guilds, is it? :-P And anyone who'd return just for the tool
wasn't going to be joining a guild anyway, so same deal IMO. People
who like this will be folk like me who don't like being committed to a
guild to raid, or the raiders who like it will be those with umpteen
alts that they can never get into guild runs (ie their mains would
continue the regular runs but they can get a shot on an alt for a
change now). A few people currently in guilds may prefer the
flexibility, but given guild runs have an infinitely higher chance of
actually killing anything, I think Raid Finder is just for those who
wouldn't be doing guild runs anyway tbh, or else for guild runs that
just need a few to fill out spots.
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (85 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (85 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (82 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)

S U N risr

11/1/2011 1:11:00 PM

0

On 11/1/2011 8:43 AM, Catriona R wrote:
>
> On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 07:42:10 -0400, IYM<"S U N risr"@optonline.net>
> wrote:
<snip>
>> is on break. I guess I should be excited about this as it would open up
>> an easy way for me to do it, but I guess that's just it...too easy to
>> do it.
>
> Well, raiders will still have that, for the normal and heroic versions
> - people pug those already (using server-based pugs and a lot of
> elitist achievement demanding etc) so it's not like it's exclusive to
> guilds even now. And given the difficulty in coordinating 25 random
> people, I highly doubt anybody who's in a guild capable of raiding
> would let raid finder replace guild raids, more likely they'd use it
> for alts, or for having an extra shot at loot if something just won't
> drop.
>
> What it may do, is make those guilds who struggle for numbers be able
> to do the raids more easily when they're short - a guild that has,
> say, 2 10-man raids, would like to do 25-man but usually end up short,
> can get them together and pull in a few pugs to run 25-man on the raid
> finder.
>
>> Time will tell if Bliz is shooting themselves in the foot making it fast
>> and easy... Sure they initially will get a big influx of players back,
>> but they won't stay long I fear....
>
> Well if they don't keep using the tool long, then it's hardly hurting
> the guilds, is it? :-P And anyone who'd return just for the tool
> wasn't going to be joining a guild anyway, so same deal IMO. People
> who like this will be folk like me who don't like being committed to a
> guild to raid, or the raiders who like it will be those with umpteen
> alts that they can never get into guild runs (ie their mains would
> continue the regular runs but they can get a shot on an alt for a
> change now). A few people currently in guilds may prefer the
> flexibility, but given guild runs have an infinitely higher chance of
> actually killing anything, I think Raid Finder is just for those who
> wouldn't be doing guild runs anyway tbh, or else for guild runs that
> just need a few to fill out spots.

All good points - Like I said, have to see how it pans out, that's all.

Does it work exactly like the DF? In other words suppose you have 10
guildies and you raid. You spend an hour and clear 3 bosses from BoT,
then one of your team has to go. Can you simply just pick up a
replacement from the "LFR" tool, or because you came in the normal way
without queing through the finder are you screwed out of it. If they
made it where you can just hit a button and bring in an eligible pug,
*that* would be nice. If it's exactly like the DF, then you'd have to
do it the normal way through trade, where most pugs aren't going to be
anymore - They'll be using the tool on their own, so your going to be
screwed, as it's going to be difficult to get a replacement.

Just some thoughts.

Catriona R

11/1/2011 1:21:00 PM

0


On Tue, 01 Nov 2011 09:11:20 -0400, IYM <"S U N risr"@optonline.net>
wrote:

>All good points - Like I said, have to see how it pans out, that's all.

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see, that's for sure. It'll get people
like me, who haven't raided in ages, actually giving it a go anyway,
although how long I'll last is another question entirely!

>Does it work exactly like the DF? In other words suppose you have 10
>guildies and you raid. You spend an hour and clear 3 bosses from BoT,
>then one of your team has to go. Can you simply just pick up a
>replacement from the "LFR" tool, or because you came in the normal way
>without queing through the finder are you screwed out of it. If they
>made it where you can just hit a button and bring in an eligible pug,
>*that* would be nice. If it's exactly like the DF, then you'd have to
>do it the normal way through trade, where most pugs aren't going to be
>anymore - They'll be using the tool on their own, so your going to be
>screwed, as it's going to be difficult to get a replacement.

Yeah it does work that way although not quite like the DF - RF is
totally separate to normal raids; it's a tier on its own, below
"normal", so if you're running a normal raid, RF isn't applicable to
it. I think some pugs may well still be up for it though, since they
won't be locked out (RF is totally separate to the normal/heroic
tiers) and they'll know that they can get higher loot in the normal
version. And, if groups are willing to be less damn elitist than
normal, they'll have a wider range of people to pick from, since more
people will have learned the fight in RF - of course, the typical
group will turn up their noses and insist that only the normal or
heroic achievement is good enough, but a reasonable group who figures
that frankly, tactics are pretty much the same in either version, will
have plenty of choice I think.

The good side to it being separate is there's no lockouts in place; if
you join a pug and get the first two bosses down then it fails
spectacularly on the 3rd boss, you can queue right back up again.
Granted you may end up doing bosses one and two a lot if boss three is
hard, but at least it's not your chances entirely over for the week.
(You're marked ineligible for loot after the first time you kill a
boss, so can't just farm forever but can keep trying if you want to
progress further - hmm, that ineligible thing makes me think using the
tool at the end of a week may be profitable; less competition for
drops :-))

Btw, the Deathwing fight looks really cool, a shame it's more
attacking his tentacles and claws than Deathwing himself, but it sure
looks impressive - I definitely hope I can get to that through RF at
some point!
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Buinne (85 Troll Shaman)
Eilnich (85 Blood Elf Warlock)
Ruire (82 Blood Elf Paladin)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)