Usa Forum - Agility = dodge? - alt.games.warcraft

John Gordon

1/26/2011 10:20:00 PM

Does Agility still grant an increased chance to dodge? Most sources I've
looked at seem to imply that it does, however if you mouseover the Agility
stat on your character screen it does not say anything about dodge.

--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

21 Answers

Jason Tinling

1/27/2011 12:15:00 AM

On Jan 26, 2:20 pm, John Gordon <gor...@panix.com> wrote:
> Does Agility still grant an increased chance to dodge? Most sources I've
> looked at seem to imply that it does, however if you mouseover the Agility
> stat on your character screen it does not say anything about dodge.
>
> --
> John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
> gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
> -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

It does, but at a much decreased rate compared to previously.
According to:

http://www.zalambar.com/warcraft_calcula...

At 85, paladins need ~ 300 AGI for 1% dodge, DKs and Warriors need
~430 and Bear tanks need ~250. I know plate wearers took a big hit on
AGI to dodge conversion around 4.0, and I'm not sure this calculator
takes that into account.

This workup at EJ has similar numbers and is based on 4.0 patch, so
I'm thinking they're probably fairly solid.

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_...

Catriona R

1/27/2011 1:21:00 PM

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:15:23 -0800 (PST), Jason Tinling
<jason.tinling@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Jan 26, 2:20 pm, John Gordon <gor...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Does Agility still grant an increased chance to dodge? Most sources I've
>> looked at seem to imply that it does, however if you mouseover the Agility
>> stat on your character screen it does not say anything about dodge.
>>
>> --
>> John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
>> gor...@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
>> -- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"
>
>It does, but at a much decreased rate compared to previously.
>According to:
>
>http://www.zalambar.com/warcraft_calcula...
>
>At 85, paladins need ~ 300 AGI for 1% dodge, DKs and Warriors need
>~430 and Bear tanks need ~250. I know plate wearers took a big hit on
>AGI to dodge conversion around 4.0, and I'm not sure this calculator
>takes that into account.
>
>This workup at EJ has similar numbers and is based on 4.0 patch, so
>I'm thinking they're probably fairly solid.
>
>http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_...

Now that is interesting, thanks - I'd always assumed (as a bear) that
dodge rating and agility were much the same for points per dodge% but
it'd seem dodge rating is rather better. Now I see why bears are
supposed to reforge everything to dodge, rather than just let their
agi do the job (although agi remains priority since it gives us threat
from attack power and savage defence aka block procs with critchance)

Speaking of which, omfg at ratings decay. Lvl 80, I had 45% dodge, 45%
crit, 9% hit, 23 expertise, the works. Lvl 85 it's 29% dodge (after
reforging EVERYTHING), about 20% crit, 5% hit and, um... 4 expertise.
I know I don't "need" hit and expertise but it's pretty annoying
having stuff miss or be dodged/parried, when every useful ability I
have is on a cd now... here's hoping I can improve that a bit with
some gearing up, since I am just in quest greens with a couple of rep
blues atm!
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)
Buinne (80 Troll Shaman)
Ruire (80 Blood Elf Paladin)

Shiflet

1/27/2011 2:28:00 PM

"Catriona R" <catrionarNOSPAM@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8qd9p0FfkvU1@mid.individual.net...

> Speaking of which, omfg at ratings decay. Lvl 80, I had 45% dodge, 45%
> crit, 9% hit, 23 expertise, the works. Lvl 85 it's 29% dodge (after
> reforging EVERYTHING), about 20% crit, 5% hit and, um... 4 expertise.
> I know I don't "need" hit and expertise but it's pretty annoying
> having stuff miss or be dodged/parried, when every useful ability I
> have is on a cd now... here's hoping I can improve that a bit with
> some gearing up, since I am just in quest greens with a couple of rep
> blues atm!

Haha. At 80 on my warrior I had 45% crit and reforged AWAY hit and
expertise, and was still over the cap just in greens. At 85, in mostly 333
blues(plus the fairy princess 346 sword from Tol Barad and a couple of 352
pvp pieces that were just WAY better than any quest reward or non-epic
crafted gear despite the presence of resilence) I'm at 24 expertise(I don't
raid, so not an issue that I'm not at 26), roughly 6% hit(same, I'm heroic
capped and that's good enough for me), and 12% crit(if I have Battle Shout
up).

Catriona R

1/27/2011 2:51:00 PM

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 08:28:16 -0600, "Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net>
wrote:

>
>"Catriona R" <catrionarNOSPAM@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:8qd9p0FfkvU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>> Speaking of which, omfg at ratings decay. Lvl 80, I had 45% dodge, 45%
>> crit, 9% hit, 23 expertise, the works. Lvl 85 it's 29% dodge (after
>> reforging EVERYTHING), about 20% crit, 5% hit and, um... 4 expertise.
>> I know I don't "need" hit and expertise but it's pretty annoying
>> having stuff miss or be dodged/parried, when every useful ability I
>> have is on a cd now... here's hoping I can improve that a bit with
>> some gearing up, since I am just in quest greens with a couple of rep
>> blues atm!
>
>Haha. At 80 on my warrior I had 45% crit and reforged AWAY hit and
>expertise, and was still over the cap just in greens. At 85, in mostly 333
>blues(plus the fairy princess 346 sword from Tol Barad and a couple of 352
>pvp pieces that were just WAY better than any quest reward or non-epic
>crafted gear despite the presence of resilence) I'm at 24 expertise(I don't
>raid, so not an issue that I'm not at 26), roughly 6% hit(same, I'm heroic
>capped and that's good enough for me), and 12% crit(if I have Battle Shout
>up).

They've certainly made ratings a lot tougher to bring up to scratch
now, maybe a good thing since 45% crit/dodge was a little excessive, I
must admit! Wouldn't mind being able to hit stuff more often though...
oh well my gear's seriously crap atm (why oh why does so much leather
have haste on it? Got about 6% of that and it's garbage for a bear),
hopefully it'll improve with better items. I won't be doing much lvl
85 content anyway, but I will be tanking old raids so at least a
reasonable hit and expertise rate would be decent lol.
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)
Buinne (80 Troll Shaman)
Ruire (80 Blood Elf Paladin)

Shiflet

1/27/2011 3:05:00 PM

"Catriona R" <catrionarNOSPAM@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8qdf1nFkbeU2@mid.individual.net...

> They've certainly made ratings a lot tougher to bring up to scratch
> now, maybe a good thing since 45% crit/dodge was a little excessive, I
> must admit!

Yeah...although for arms, we have so many crit boosting talents that I still
have a 70% crit rate on Overpower and around a 35-40% rate on Mortal Strike.
I also seem to have a 50% crit rate on Victory Rush, which is a mystery to
me. Seriously, I look at recount, and VR basically STAYS at 50% crit rate,
despite there being nothing in the tooltip about it having an increased crit
chance and despite none of my talents mentioning anything about boosting
it's crit chance.

> Wouldn't mind being able to hit stuff more often though...
> oh well my gear's seriously crap atm (why oh why does so much leather
> have haste on it? Got about 6% of that and it's garbage for a bear),

How useful is it for cats? I know combat rogues love it...

> hopefully it'll improve with better items.

My friend runs a rogue and her expertise is also horribly low...

Urbin

1/27/2011 3:21:00 PM

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:20:39 +0000, Catriona R wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:15:23 -0800 (PST), Jason Tinling
> <jason.tinling@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Jan 26, 2:20 pm, John Gordon <gor...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> Does Agility still grant an increased chance to dodge? Most sources I've
> >> looked at seem to imply that it does, however if you mouseover the Agility
> >> stat on your character screen it does not say anything about dodge.
> >
> >It does, but at a much decreased rate compared to previously.
> >According to:
> >
> >http://www.zalambar.com/warcraft_calcula...
> >
> >At 85, paladins need ~ 300 AGI for 1% dodge, DKs and Warriors need
> >~430 and Bear tanks need ~250. I know plate wearers took a big hit on
> >AGI to dodge conversion around 4.0, and I'm not sure this calculator
> >takes that into account.
> >
> >This workup at EJ has similar numbers and is based on 4.0 patch, so
> >I'm thinking they're probably fairly solid.
> >
> >http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_...
>
> Now that is interesting, thanks - I'd always assumed (as a bear) that
> dodge rating and agility were much the same for points per dodge% but
> it'd seem dodge rating is rather better. Now I see why bears are
> supposed to reforge everything to dodge, rather than just let their
> agi do the job (although agi remains priority since it gives us threat
> from attack power and savage defence aka block procs with critchance)
>
> Speaking of which, omfg at ratings decay. Lvl 80, I had 45% dodge, 45%
> crit, 9% hit, 23 expertise, the works. Lvl 85 it's 29% dodge (after
> reforging EVERYTHING), about 20% crit, 5% hit and, um... 4 expertise.
> I know I don't "need" hit

Why don't you need hit as bear tank? I would have expected that you loose
quite a bit of threat if your white attacks miss, hence not causing damage
and therefore not causing threat.

Or am I missing something obvious?

> and expertise but it's pretty annoying having stuff miss or be
> dodged/parried, when every useful ability I have is on a cd now...

From the above I guess that my non-white abilities are not impacted by low
hit and can therefore cause threat even if my white attacks miss, right?

Cheers
Urbin, whose bear is a long way from having these problems :-)

--
Dun Morogh-EU (PvE) | Juran (65), Druid
Urbin (85), Hunter | Surana (70), Mage | Greeta (62), Rogue
Mymule (80), Warlock | Kordosch (75), Deathknight | Gera (26), Paladin
Sunh (80), Priest | Taalas (73), Shaman | Vargal (14), Warrior

John Gordon

1/27/2011 3:25:00 PM

In <slrnik33bp.boo.urbin@stinky-local.trash.net> Urbin <urbin@invalid.invalid> writes:

> Why don't you need hit as bear tank? I would have expected that you loose
> quite a bit of threat if your white attacks miss, hence not causing damage
> and therefore not causing threat.

This early in an expansion, the DPSers in your group won't have uber gear
and so you shouldn't have to worry (much) about them pulling aggro.
Focusing on survivability stats is much more important at this stage.

--
John Gordon A is for Amy, who fell down the stairs
gordon@panix.com B is for Basil, assaulted by bears
-- Edward Gorey, "The Gashlycrumb Tinies"

Catriona R

1/27/2011 3:31:00 PM

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:04:47 -0600, "Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net>
wrote:

>
>"Catriona R" <catrionarNOSPAM@totalise.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:8qdf1nFkbeU2@mid.individual.net...
>
>> They've certainly made ratings a lot tougher to bring up to scratch
>> now, maybe a good thing since 45% crit/dodge was a little excessive, I
>> must admit!
>
>Yeah...although for arms, we have so many crit boosting talents that I still
>have a 70% crit rate on Overpower and around a 35-40% rate on Mortal Strike.
>I also seem to have a 50% crit rate on Victory Rush, which is a mystery to
>me. Seriously, I look at recount, and VR basically STAYS at 50% crit rate,
>despite there being nothing in the tooltip about it having an increased crit
>chance and despite none of my talents mentioning anything about boosting
>it's crit chance.

Heh nice, I'm jealous - don't believe any of my bear's skills have
extra critchance! Guess I'll have fun when I lvl my warrior, at least
:-)

>> Wouldn't mind being able to hit stuff more often though...
>> oh well my gear's seriously crap atm (why oh why does so much leather
>> have haste on it? Got about 6% of that and it's garbage for a bear),
>
>How useful is it for cats? I know combat rogues love it...

I guess my rogue's been doing things wrong then, since it's always
been my lowest priority stat, sure, it's handy but the others are
better imo :-P Not sure about cats, suppose it may be handy but I'd
far rather have other stats that actually have a noticeable effect!

>> hopefully it'll improve with better items.
>
>My friend runs a rogue and her expertise is also horribly low...

It seems a pretty hard stat to get hold of atm. Guess I'll get used to
having less of it but it's a bit annoying, especially with all that
useless haste filling my gear (it's very much useless to a bear,
however good or otherwise it is for cats/rogues ;-))
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)
Buinne (80 Troll Shaman)
Ruire (80 Blood Elf Paladin)

Catriona R

1/27/2011 3:34:00 PM

On 27 Jan 2011 15:21:29 GMT, Urbin <urbin@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 13:20:39 +0000, Catriona R wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:15:23 -0800 (PST), Jason Tinling
>> <jason.tinling@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Jan 26, 2:20 pm, John Gordon <gor...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >> Does Agility still grant an increased chance to dodge? Most sources I've
>> >> looked at seem to imply that it does, however if you mouseover the Agility
>> >> stat on your character screen it does not say anything about dodge.
>> >
>> >It does, but at a much decreased rate compared to previously.
>> >According to:
>> >
>> >http://www.zalambar.com/warcraft_calcula...
>> >
>> >At 85, paladins need ~ 300 AGI for 1% dodge, DKs and Warriors need
>> >~430 and Bear tanks need ~250. I know plate wearers took a big hit on
>> >AGI to dodge conversion around 4.0, and I'm not sure this calculator
>> >takes that into account.
>> >
>> >This workup at EJ has similar numbers and is based on 4.0 patch, so
>> >I'm thinking they're probably fairly solid.
>> >
>> >http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_...
>>
>> Now that is interesting, thanks - I'd always assumed (as a bear) that
>> dodge rating and agility were much the same for points per dodge% but
>> it'd seem dodge rating is rather better. Now I see why bears are
>> supposed to reforge everything to dodge, rather than just let their
>> agi do the job (although agi remains priority since it gives us threat
>> from attack power and savage defence aka block procs with critchance)
>>
>> Speaking of which, omfg at ratings decay. Lvl 80, I had 45% dodge, 45%
>> crit, 9% hit, 23 expertise, the works. Lvl 85 it's 29% dodge (after
>> reforging EVERYTHING), about 20% crit, 5% hit and, um... 4 expertise.
>> I know I don't "need" hit
>
>Why don't you need hit as bear tank? I would have expected that you loose
>quite a bit of threat if your white attacks miss, hence not causing damage
>and therefore not causing threat.
>
>Or am I missing something obvious?

I agree totally but according to the likes of elitist jerks avoidance
matters more, which is why I put "need" in quotes. In theory it's more
important to avoid more attacks than it is to hit on more, and I can
see that viewpoint, but in reality I find it extremely annoying!

>> and expertise but it's pretty annoying having stuff miss or be
>> dodged/parried, when every useful ability I have is on a cd now...
>
>From the above I guess that my non-white abilities are not impacted by low
>hit and can therefore cause threat even if my white attacks miss, right?
>
>Cheers
>Urbin, whose bear is a long way from having these problems :-)

All abilities are the same for a bear. Misschance on nonwhite
abilities is by default the same as for single weapon wielding white
attacks (unless I've misunderstood something), only duel wielding
classes like rogues have different hitchance for white and nonwhite
attacks. And while paws *look* like you're using both, it's apparently
single weapon as far as mechanics go :-)
--
EU-Draenor:
Sagart (85 Undead Priest)
Tairbh (85 Tauren Druid)
Balgair (80 Human Rogue)
Buinne (80 Troll Shaman)
Ruire (80 Blood Elf Paladin)

steve.kaye

1/27/2011 3:38:00 PM

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 15:31:01 +0000, Catriona R
<catrionarNOSPAM@totalise.co.uk> wrote:

>
>On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 09:04:47 -0600, "Shiflet" <rshiflet@charter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> Wouldn't mind being able to hit stuff more often though...
>>> oh well my gear's seriously crap atm (why oh why does so much leather
>>> have haste on it? Got about 6% of that and it's garbage for a bear),
>>
>>How useful is it for cats? I know combat rogues love it...
>
>I guess my rogue's been doing things wrong then, since it's always
>been my lowest priority stat, sure, it's handy but the others are
>better imo :-P Not sure about cats, suppose it may be handy but I'd
>far rather have other stats that actually have a noticeable effect!

I believe that it increases your energy regeneration rate. It might
be one of those things that you start to notice when you have a lot of
it.

steve.kaye
--
Jelan, 85 Priest Clokk, 81 Druid Belugar, 76 Warrior
Kibbs, 83 Paladin Jengu, 81 Death Knight Mingan, 74 Shaman
Miho, 82 Rogue Jaille, 80 Warlock Yopp, 64 Hunter
[ Ravenholdt-EU (Horde) ] Aloola, 62 Mage

alt.games.warcraft

Agility = dodge?

John Gordon

Jason Tinling

Catriona R

Shiflet

Catriona R

Shiflet

Urbin

John Gordon

Catriona R

Catriona R

steve.kaye

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