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rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Variant: Truly eternal struggle

salem

12/23/2010 3:19:00 AM

Perceived problem: It sucks being ousted and having to sit around waiting
for the game to finish, especially in a game that can take 2+ hours. This
causes disengagement from new players (especially in smaller groups where
they can't just jump in to a new game), and just general boredom for other
players.

The below idea is my attempt to find a way to allow you to keep playing.
(I've been playing a bunch of boardgames recently that everyone plays
through until the end).

Simple idea, probably heaps of problems, but that's why I'm putting it up
here, so you guy can tear it to pieces.

Here it is:

When you're ousted, pick up all the cards you control, get up, and sit down
in between your predator and grand predator (ie: swap seats with your
predator). Shuffle all your library and crypt cards that haven't been
stolen/given by/to someone else, grab yourself 30 pool, and start again. You
count as a whole new methuselah, for cards that care (ie: cards that were
temporarily controlled by other methuselahs when you were ousted still get
removed from the game when they would otherwise return to you, you can play
'Retribution' and other once-per-game-per-methuselah cards again, you're no
longer tagged by Boons, etc).

When any player has accumulated 3 vps, the game ends (or at the time limit).
Score Game Wins as normal (but obviously there might be more than the number
of players as available VPs).

Some things I worry about:

Moving player positions around mid-game is annoying. Probably not so bad
since one player is clearing all their's and it's really just one player's
stuff moving (unlike Dramatic Upheaval and Kindred Restructure), but still
has scope for counters to go missing off cards, etc.

The player that ousts someone might get a bit too much of a free reign for a
few turns with a player still starting out behind them (no minions, plenty
of pool on your predator), so might want to limit the amount of pool gained
for an oust to balance this out. Or not. It could also be good to have
players playing more aggessively, to get games finishing faster?

On the flipside, it'll make the new prey extra keen to oust his own prey to
get them in between and create a buffer.

Might also want to give the re-starting player a few extra transfers on the
first turn to get them back in to the game quicker.


Thoughts? I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. Which may end up being
not very simple at all.

--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
5 Answers

floppyzedolfin

12/23/2010 8:45:00 AM

0

On Dec 23, 4:19 am, salem <kella...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Perceived problem: It sucks being ousted and having to sit around waiting
> for the game to finish, especially in a game that can take 2+ hours. This
> causes disengagement from new players (especially in smaller groups where
> they can't just jump in to a new game), and just general boredom for other
> players.
>
> The below idea is my attempt to find a way to allow you to keep playing.
> (I've been playing a bunch of boardgames recently that everyone plays
> through until the end).
>
> Simple idea, probably heaps of problems, but that's why I'm putting it up
> here, so you guy can tear it to pieces.
>
> Here it is:
>
> When you're ousted, pick up all the cards you control, get up, and sit down
> in between your predator and grand predator (ie: swap seats with your
> predator). Shuffle all your library and crypt cards that haven't been
> stolen/given by/to someone else, grab yourself 30 pool, and start again. You
> count as a whole new methuselah, for cards that care (ie: cards that were
> temporarily controlled by other methuselahs when you were ousted still get
> removed from the game when they would otherwise return to you, you can play
> 'Retribution' and other once-per-game-per-methuselah cards again, you're no
> longer tagged by Boons, etc).
>
> When any player has accumulated 3 vps, the game ends (or at the time limit).
> Score Game Wins as normal (but obviously there might be more than the number
> of players as available VPs).
>
> Some things I worry about:
>
> Moving player positions around mid-game is annoying. Probably not so bad
> since one player is clearing all their's and it's really just one player's
> stuff moving (unlike Dramatic Upheaval and Kindred Restructure), but still
> has scope for counters to go missing off cards, etc.
>
> The player that ousts someone might get a bit too much of a free reign for a
> few turns with a player still starting out behind them (no minions, plenty
> of pool on your predator), so might want to limit the amount of pool gained
> for an oust to balance this out. Or not. It could also be good to have
> players playing more aggessively, to get games finishing faster?
>
> On the flipside, it'll make the new prey extra keen to oust his own prey to
> get them in between and create a buffer.
>
> Might also want to give the re-starting player a few extra transfers on the
> first turn to get them back in to the game quicker.
>
> Thoughts? I'd like to keep it as simple as possible. Which may end up being
> not very simple at all.
>
> --
> salem
> (replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

So, when everyone is low on pool, someone lunges because they only
have 1 turn left to play, you give them a harmless and almost
invincible predator?

What about the grand-predator? That player could've been close to
ousting someone. Maybe on the next turn, whether your predator ousts
you or not (suppose there's a Smiling Jack in play, for instance).

I think the main problem would be that the game is going to last 3-4
hours.

If your main concern is that waiting for players who haven't finished
the game is boring for those who were ousted, why not change the time
limit to 1h30min ?

Obtenebration

12/23/2010 11:25:00 AM

0

>game that can take 2+ hours

Play with the standard 2 hour time limit.

Even a fast oust takes 10-15 minutes and a game with new players
should not be seeing any deck that falls onto that list.

salem

12/24/2010 5:18:00 AM

0

Obtenebration wrote:

>>game that can take 2+ hours
>
> Play with the standard 2 hour time limit.
>
> Even a fast oust takes 10-15 minutes and a game with new players
> should not be seeing any deck that falls onto that list.

We do play even our social games with a 2 hour time limit (unless we have a
6 or 7 player game, then we add an extra 30 mins).

Assuming someone doesn't get ousted until the 1 hour mark...they are still
likely to be sitting around for an hour twiddling their thumbs.

That's not fun.

--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)

The Lasombra

12/24/2010 5:29:00 AM

0

On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 14:19:15 +1100, salem wrote:

>Here it is:

http://www.thelasombra.com/variants/sal...

>When you're ousted, pick up all the cards you control, get up, and sit down
>in between your predator and grand predator (ie: swap seats with your
>predator). Shuffle all your library and crypt cards that haven't been
>stolen/given by/to someone else, grab yourself 30 pool, and start again. You
>count as a whole new methuselah, for cards that care (ie: cards that were
>temporarily controlled by other methuselahs when you were ousted still get
>removed from the game when they would otherwise return to you, you can play
>'Retribution' and other once-per-game-per-methuselah cards again, you're no
>longer tagged by Boons, etc).

>When any player has accumulated 3 vps, the game ends (or at the time limit).
>Score Game Wins as normal (but obviously there might be more than the number
>of players as available VPs).

When the player sits back down, I would not like to see them as a 30
point pool sack. They need to be able to interact with the game
immediately.

I would propose that they do the following after moving, on their
first turn:

1) Use 16 transfers to bring minions into play during the untap phase.
These minions will be at half capacity (. These minions cannot be
ones that contest minions already in play.

2) Draw and discard 15 cards. So, their starting hand will have the
best of the top 22 cards in their deck, so they are ready to play
something the master phase, and they may play one master card for free
from within those 22 cards prior to that master phase beginning.

3) Have 14 pool.

Their new predator will have one turn of offense before they have
minions, but only one turn.

Something like Legbiter's end-game variant.

http://www.thelasombra.com/variants/e...

librarian

12/24/2010 7:15:00 PM

0

On 12/23/2010 9:28 PM, The Lasombra wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Dec 2010 14:19:15 +1100, salem wrote:
>
>> Here it is:
>
> http://www.thelasombra.com/variants/sal...
>
>> When you're ousted, pick up all the cards you control, get up, and sit down
>> in between your predator and grand predator (ie: swap seats with your
>> predator). Shuffle all your library and crypt cards that haven't been
>> stolen/given by/to someone else, grab yourself 30 pool, and start again. You
>> count as a whole new methuselah, for cards that care (ie: cards that were
>> temporarily controlled by other methuselahs when you were ousted still get
>> removed from the game when they would otherwise return to you, you can play
>> 'Retribution' and other once-per-game-per-methuselah cards again, you're no
>> longer tagged by Boons, etc).
>
>> When any player has accumulated 3 vps, the game ends (or at the time limit).
>> Score Game Wins as normal (but obviously there might be more than the number
>> of players as available VPs).
>
> When the player sits back down, I would not like to see them as a 30
> point pool sack. They need to be able to interact with the game
> immediately.
>
> I would propose that they do the following after moving, on their
> first turn:
>
> 1) Use 16 transfers to bring minions into play during the untap phase.
> These minions will be at half capacity (. These minions cannot be
> ones that contest minions already in play.
>
> 2) Draw and discard 15 cards. So, their starting hand will have the
> best of the top 22 cards in their deck, so they are ready to play
> something the master phase, and they may play one master card for free
> from within those 22 cards prior to that master phase beginning.
>
> 3) Have 14 pool.
>
> Their new predator will have one turn of offense before they have
> minions, but only one turn.
>
> Something like Legbiter's end-game variant.
>
> http://www.thelasombra.com/variants/e...
>

I like Lasombra's idea.

This could be tested on JOL, or in your own playgroup salem. Would love to
hear back on how it worked out...

My only question, does the game end immediately when someone gets the 3rd
VP, or when the current Meth's turn ends?

chris