[lnkForumImage]
TotalShareware - Download Free Software
Usa Forum
 Home | Login | Register | Search 


 

Forums >

rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Rules clarification for moving blood

YY

11/24/2010 7:20:00 AM

I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
case, move all [something]".

I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
to all cards with similar text.

Thanks in advance.

-YY

Ayo Igoli [LoB:U]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Ishtarri
Group: 4
Capacity: 10
Discipline: obf tha AUS CEL FOR PRE
Laibon: Ayo gets an additional vote for each ready titled vampire you
control. You may use a discard phase action to move 2 blood from Ayo
to a Laibon in your uncontrolled region.

Loose Cannon [Gehenna:C]
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Dementation/Thaumaturgy/Vicissitude
Requires an anarch. Only usable as the action is announced. If this
action is blocked, apply the following effect (before combat occurs):
[dem] Tap a younger non-blocking vampire controlled by the blocking
minion's controller.
[tha] Move 2 blood from a non-blocking vampire controlled by the
blocking minion's controller to this vampire.
[vic] This acting vampire's hand damage is aggravated in the resulting
combat.

Menele [CE:V/PB, KMW:PAl, BSC:X]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Brujah
Group: 3
Capacity: 10
Discipline: aus dom CEL POT PRE THA
Camarilla: During your untap phase, you may move 2 blood from Menele
to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region. +1 bleed.

Saulot, The Wanderer [LoB:U]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Salubri
Group: 4
Capacity: 11
Discipline: dai AUS FOR OBE THA VAL
Independent: Damage Baali inflict on Saulot is reduced to 0. During
your untap phase, you may move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire in
your uncontrolled region or in play. +1 bleed. +1 strength. Scarce.

Undele [EK:U]
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Ishtarri
Group: 5
Capacity: 9
Discipline: obf pre ser CEL FOR
Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
(discard afterward).

Villein [KoT:U, HttB:PGar2/PKia2/PSal2/PSam2]
Cardtype: Master
Master: trifle.
Put this card on a vampire you control and move 2 or more blood from
that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost an additional pool.
Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire.
7 Answers

suoli

11/24/2010 7:43:00 AM

0

On 24 marras, 09:20, YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
> be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
> case, move all [something]".
>
> I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
> that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
> to all cards with similar text.
>
> Undele [EK:U]
> Cardtype:       Vampire
> Clan:   Ishtarri
> Group:  5
> Capacity:       9
> Discipline:     obf pre ser CEL FOR
> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> (discard afterward).

In the case of Undele you need to name two minion cards in the terms
of the referendum and, consequently, need to have at least two minion
cards in your ash heap.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/e304c1cd8b1038c3/729452e2cf8cb590?q=undele+author:lsj#729452...

Jozxyqk

11/24/2010 11:19:00 AM

0

YY <the1andonlime@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
> be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
> case, move all [something]".

> I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
> that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
> to all cards with similar text.

One of these things is not like the other...

The difference between some of these cards is that when you are moving
blood counters (most of your examples), the minion is the target. So you
can target him even if he has zero blood.

When you are moving cards (Undele), the cards are the target. So you
must legally target the exact number of cards (2).


> Thanks in advance.

> -YY

> Ayo Igoli [LoB:U]
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Ishtarri
> Group: 4
> Capacity: 10
> Discipline: obf tha AUS CEL FOR PRE
> Laibon: Ayo gets an additional vote for each ready titled vampire you
> control. You may use a discard phase action to move 2 blood from Ayo
> to a Laibon in your uncontrolled region.

> Loose Cannon [Gehenna:C]
> Cardtype: Action Modifier
> Cost: 1 blood
> Discipline: Dementation/Thaumaturgy/Vicissitude
> Requires an anarch. Only usable as the action is announced. If this
> action is blocked, apply the following effect (before combat occurs):
> [dem] Tap a younger non-blocking vampire controlled by the blocking
> minion's controller.
> [tha] Move 2 blood from a non-blocking vampire controlled by the
> blocking minion's controller to this vampire.
> [vic] This acting vampire's hand damage is aggravated in the resulting
> combat.

> Menele [CE:V/PB, KMW:PAl, BSC:X]
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Brujah
> Group: 3
> Capacity: 10
> Discipline: aus dom CEL POT PRE THA
> Camarilla: During your untap phase, you may move 2 blood from Menele
> to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region. +1 bleed.

> Saulot, The Wanderer [LoB:U]
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Salubri
> Group: 4
> Capacity: 11
> Discipline: dai AUS FOR OBE THA VAL
> Independent: Damage Baali inflict on Saulot is reduced to 0. During
> your untap phase, you may move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire in
> your uncontrolled region or in play. +1 bleed. +1 strength. Scarce.

> Undele [EK:U]
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Ishtarri
> Group: 5
> Capacity: 9
> Discipline: obf pre ser CEL FOR
> Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> (discard afterward).

> Villein [KoT:U, HttB:PGar2/PKia2/PSal2/PSam2]
> Cardtype: Master
> Master: trifle.
> Put this card on a vampire you control and move 2 or more blood from
> that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost an additional pool.
> Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire.

henrik

11/24/2010 12:31:00 PM

0

On Nov 24, 12:18 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
> > be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
> > case, move all [something]".
> > I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
> > that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
> > to all cards with similar text.
>
> One of these things is not like the other...
>
> The difference between some of these cards is that when you are moving
> blood counters (most of your examples), the minion is the target.  So you
> can target him even if he has zero blood.
>
> When you are moving cards (Undele), the cards are the target.  So you
> must legally target the exact number of cards (2).

Is that made clear somewhere in the rulebook or on the card texts?
From what I see they use the same wording:

"move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire"
vs
"move two minion cards from your ash heap to your hand"

I'm not sure I disagree with what you're saying, just wondering if
there's anything to back it up other than it sounding good (and well,
I guess that ruling suoli linked could point towards it).
Thinking about it, Undele's card text doesn't even say that you get to
pick which cards or that you should even name them before voting in
the referendum.

> > Ayo Igoli [LoB:U]
> > Cardtype:       Vampire
> > Clan:   Ishtarri
> > Group:  4
> > Capacity:       10
> > Discipline:     obf tha AUS CEL FOR PRE
> > Laibon: Ayo gets an additional vote for each ready titled vampire you
> > control. You may use a discard phase action to move 2 blood from Ayo
> > to a Laibon in your uncontrolled region.
> > Loose Cannon [Gehenna:C]
> > Cardtype:       Action Modifier
> > Cost:   1 blood
> > Discipline:     Dementation/Thaumaturgy/Vicissitude
> > Requires an anarch. Only usable as the action is announced. If this
> > action is blocked, apply the following effect (before combat occurs):
> > [dem] Tap a younger non-blocking vampire controlled by the blocking
> > minion's controller.
> > [tha] Move 2 blood from a non-blocking vampire controlled by the
> > blocking minion's controller to this vampire.
> > [vic] This acting vampire's hand damage is aggravated in the resulting
> > combat.
> > Menele [CE:V/PB, KMW:PAl, BSC:X]
> > Cardtype:       Vampire
> > Clan:   Brujah
> > Group:  3
> > Capacity:       10
> > Discipline:     aus dom CEL POT PRE THA
> > Camarilla: During your untap phase, you may move 2 blood from Menele
> > to a younger vampire in your uncontrolled region. +1 bleed.
> > Saulot, The Wanderer [LoB:U]
> > Cardtype:       Vampire
> > Clan:   Salubri
> > Group:  4
> > Capacity:       11
> > Discipline:     dai AUS FOR OBE THA VAL
> > Independent: Damage Baali inflict on Saulot is reduced to 0. During
> > your untap phase, you may move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire in
> > your uncontrolled region or in play. +1 bleed. +1 strength. Scarce.
> > Undele [EK:U]
> > Cardtype:       Vampire
> > Clan:   Ishtarri
> > Group:  5
> > Capacity:       9
> > Discipline:     obf pre ser CEL FOR
> > Laibon magaji: Undele may call a referendum to move two minion cards
> > from your ash heap to your hand as a +1 stealth political action
> > (discard afterward).
> > Villein [KoT:U, HttB:PGar2/PKia2/PSal2/PSam2]
> > Cardtype:       Master
> > Master: trifle.
> > Put this card on a vampire you control and move 2 or more blood from
> > that vampire to your pool. Minion Tap cards cost an additional pool.
> > Villein costs an additional pool to play on this vampire.
>
>

henrik

11/24/2010 12:38:00 PM

0

On Nov 24, 1:30 pm, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 12:18 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > > I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
> > > be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
> > > case, move all [something]".
> > > I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
> > > that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
> > > to all cards with similar text.
>
> > One of these things is not like the other...
>
> > The difference between some of these cards is that when you are moving
> > blood counters (most of your examples), the minion is the target.  So you
> > can target him even if he has zero blood.
>
> > When you are moving cards (Undele), the cards are the target.  So you
> > must legally target the exact number of cards (2).
>
> Is that made clear somewhere in the rulebook or on the card texts?
> From what I see they use the same wording:
>
> "move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire"
> vs
> "move two minion cards from your ash heap to your hand"
>
> I'm not sure I disagree with what you're saying, just wondering if
> there's anything to back it up other than it sounding good (and well,
> I guess that ruling suoli linked could point towards it).
> Thinking about it, Undele's card text doesn't even say that you get to
> pick which cards or that you should even name them before voting in
> the referendum.

Found that the targeting of cards part is covered in rulebook, so skip
that one.

suoli

11/24/2010 1:00:00 PM

0

On 24 marras, 14:30, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Thinking about it, Undele's card text doesn't even say that you get to
> pick which cards or that you should even name them before voting in
> the referendum.

Or whether he even *will* call the referendum. He may if the situation
demands it but declines to speculate any further about it at this
juncture.

Haze

11/24/2010 8:39:00 PM

0

On Nov 24, 6:30 am, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 12:18 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > > I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
> > > be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
> > > case, move all [something]".
> > > I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
> > > that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
> > > to all cards with similar text.
>
> > One of these things is not like the other...
>
> > The difference between some of these cards is that when you are moving
> > blood counters (most of your examples), the minion is the target.  So you
> > can target him even if he has zero blood.
>
> > When you are moving cards (Undele), the cards are the target.  So you
> > must legally target the exact number of cards (2).
>
> Is that made clear somewhere in the rulebook or on the card texts?
> From what I see they use the same wording:
>
> "move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire"
> vs
> "move two minion cards from your ash heap to your hand"
>
> I'm not sure I disagree with what you're saying, just wondering if
> there's anything to back it up other than it sounding good (and well,
> I guess that ruling suoli linked could point towards it).
> Thinking about it, Undele's card text doesn't even say that you get to
> pick which cards or that you should even name them before voting in
> the referendum.

Cohn Rose enters combat with a mage ally. Cohn has a capacity of 5 and
has 4 blood. The mage has 2 life. After determining range, Cohn steals
3 blood as his strike. The mage strikes for 2R damage. Two life
counters are moved to Cohn from the mage, and Cohn sustains 2 damage.

the rulebook section on Steal Blood could be a precedent to all "move
blood" effects

Juggernaut1981

11/24/2010 9:00:00 PM

0

On Nov 25, 7:39 am, Haze <headlessr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 24, 6:30 am, henrik <www.hen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 24, 12:18 pm, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
>
> > > YY <the1andonl...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
> > > > I just want to confirm that "move X [something]" in V:tES is meant to
> > > > be read as "move X [something] unless there is less than X, in which
> > > > case, move all [something]".
> > > > I am asking because there was a huge thread about Villein a while back
> > > > that made reference to this rule, and I'd like to know if this applies
> > > > to all cards with similar text.
>
> > > One of these things is not like the other...
>
> > > The difference between some of these cards is that when you are moving
> > > blood counters (most of your examples), the minion is the target.  So you
> > > can target him even if he has zero blood.
>
> > > When you are moving cards (Undele), the cards are the target.  So you
> > > must legally target the exact number of cards (2).
>
> > Is that made clear somewhere in the rulebook or on the card texts?
> > From what I see they use the same wording:
>
> > "move 2 blood from Saulot to any vampire"
> > vs
> > "move two minion cards from your ash heap to your hand"
>
> > I'm not sure I disagree with what you're saying, just wondering if
> > there's anything to back it up other than it sounding good (and well,
> > I guess that ruling suoli linked could point towards it).
> > Thinking about it, Undele's card text doesn't even say that you get to
> > pick which cards or that you should even name them before voting in
> > the referendum.
>
> Cohn Rose enters combat with a mage ally. Cohn has a capacity of 5 and
> has 4 blood. The mage has 2 life. After determining range, Cohn steals
> 3 blood as his strike. The mage strikes for 2R damage. Two life
> counters are moved to Cohn from the mage, and Cohn sustains 2 damage.
>
> the rulebook section on Steal Blood could be a precedent to all "move
> blood" effects

LSJ has treated other "Move Blood" effects to be similar to Steal
Blood effects AFAIK. See the reasonably recent debates about Villein.