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rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

LSJ- Bum's Rush and Freak Drive

XZealot

10/21/2010 9:58:00 PM

Bum's Rush
Type: Action
Do not replace until the end of this action.
(D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah.
The acting minion gets an optional maneuver during this combat.

Freak Drive
Type: Action Modifier
Requires: Fortitude
Cost: 1 blood
[for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving
the action). This vampire untaps.
[FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after
combat, if any).

If the card that you replace Bum's Rush with is a Freak Drive, can you
play it to untap the acting vampire.

The language of both cards occur in the "end of an action" window by
card text. Since you can order your turn as you like you can arrange
to replace the bum's rush then play the freak drive while never
leaving the "end of action" window. Is this correct?
12 Answers

LSJ

10/22/2010 2:28:00 AM

0

On Oct 21, 5:58 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> Bum's Rush
> Type: Action
> Do not replace until the end of this action.
> (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah.
> The acting minion gets an optional maneuver during this combat.
>
> Freak Drive
> Type: Action Modifier
> Requires: Fortitude
> Cost: 1 blood
> [for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving
> the action). This vampire untaps.
> [FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after
> combat, if any).
>
> If the card that you replace Bum's Rush with is a Freak Drive, can you
> play it to untap the acting vampire.

No.

> The language of both cards occur in the "end of an action" window by
> card text.  Since you can order your turn as you like you can arrange
> to replace the bum's rush then play the freak drive while never
> leaving the "end of action" window.  Is this correct?

The language of Bum's Rush is "not". Do not replace. It isn't
something to do. It's something not to do.

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/c4e3ae...

XZealot

10/22/2010 10:40:00 AM

0

On Oct 21, 9:28 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 5:58 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Bum's Rush
> > Type: Action
> > Do not replace until the end of this action.
> > (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah.
> > The acting minion gets an optional maneuver during this combat.
>
> > Freak Drive
> > Type: Action Modifier
> > Requires: Fortitude
> > Cost: 1 blood
> > [for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving
> > the action). This vampire untaps.
> > [FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after
> > combat, if any).
>
> > If the card that you replace Bum's Rush with is a Freak Drive, can you
> > play it to untap the acting vampire.
>
> No.
>
> > The language of both cards occur in the "end of an action" window by
> > card text.  Since you can order your turn as you like you can arrange
> > to replace the bum's rush then play the freak drive while never
> > leaving the "end of action" window.  Is this correct?
>
> The language of Bum's Rush is "not". Do not replace. It isn't
> something to do. It's something not to do.
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyha......

The default is for you to replace the card immediately. Bum's Rush
uses "not" to delay that replacement "until the end of the action"
which is the exact same window as Freak Drive's "at the end of a
successful action". They are both at the "end of the action". That
is what both cards say.

LSJ

10/22/2010 12:05:00 PM

0

On Oct 22, 6:40 am, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Oct 21, 9:28 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Oct 21, 5:58 pm, XZealot <xzea...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > Bum's Rush
> > > Type: Action
> > > Do not replace until the end of this action.
> > > (D) Enter combat with a ready minion controlled by another Methuselah.
> > > The acting minion gets an optional maneuver during this combat.
>
> > > Freak Drive
> > > Type: Action Modifier
> > > Requires: Fortitude
> > > Cost: 1 blood
> > > [for] Only usable at the end of a successful action (after resolving
> > > the action). This vampire untaps.
> > > [FOR] As above, but usable even if the action is blocked (play after
> > > combat, if any).
>
> > > If the card that you replace Bum's Rush with is a Freak Drive, can you
> > > play it to untap the acting vampire.
>
> > No.
>
> > > The language of both cards occur in the "end of an action" window by
> > > card text.  Since you can order your turn as you like you can arrange
> > > to replace the bum's rush then play the freak drive while never
> > > leaving the "end of action" window.  Is this correct?
>
> > The language of Bum's Rush is "not". Do not replace. It isn't
> > something to do. It's something not to do.
>
> >http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyha......
>
> The default is for you to replace the card immediately. Bum's Rush
> uses "not" to delay that replacement "until the end of the action"
> which is the exact same window as Freak Drive's "at the end of a
> successful action".  They are both at the "end of the action".  That
> is what both cards say.

FD is playable at the end of the action.
That phrase, "at the end", means during the action, after resolving
the action.

Bum's rush is not replaced until the end of the action. That phrase,
"until the end" means as long as it has not ended.

If you've replaced the Bum's Rush, the action has ended. Action
modifiers, like Freak Drive, cannot be played with no action to
modify.

Kevin M.

10/23/2010 4:09:00 AM

0

LSJ wrote:
> FD is playable at the end of the action.
> That phrase, "at the end", means during the action,
> after resolving the action.
>
> Bum's rush is not replaced until the end of the action.
> That phrase, "until the end" means as long as it has not ended.
>
> If you've replaced the Bum's Rush, the action has ended.
> Action modifiers, like Freak Drive, cannot be played with
> no action to modify.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:

I'd like to caution all players of The Una Deck to MAKE SURE
that you play your Freak Drive BEFORE you replace from your
Bum's Rush, et.al., otherwise you're going to be very sad. ;)


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.mymin...
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12974...


Kevin M.

10/23/2010 4:36:00 AM

0

LSJ wrote:
> FD is playable at the end of the action.
> That phrase, "at the end", means during the action,
> after resolving the action.
>
> Bum's rush is not replaced until the end of the action.
> That phrase, "until the end" means as long as it has not ended.
>
> If you've replaced the Bum's Rush, the action has ended.
> Action modifiers, like Freak Drive, cannot be played with
> no action to modify.

Looking at the Rules Outline, it would appear that there is no
difference in the timing of when the resolution of FD and BR
happen -- the only place they can both occur is in IV.E., true?

I'm not saying that your explanation isn't reasonable -- it is --
but it appears that IV.E. could use some sub-phases added.


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.mymin...
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12974...


Obtenebration

10/23/2010 5:24:00 AM

0

> Looking at the Rules Outline, it would appear that there is no
> difference in the timing of when the resolution of FD and BR
> happen -- the only place they can both occur is in IV.E., true?
>
> I'm not saying that your explanation isn't reasonable -- it is --
> but it appears that IV.E. could use some sub-phases added.
>

It does seem that both should happen in IV.E, which would allow the
acting Meth to order them as preferred.

Maybe a IV.D.4 Section to allow for the playable at the end of an
action effects. This puts it in the action after success/failure is
determined (so FD/Forced March type cards can check) and before the
action ends which prevents any more action modifiers.

Then E ends the action, which would trigger replacement effects from
card's like Bum's Rush.

Juggernaut1981

10/23/2010 6:02:00 AM

0

On Oct 23, 4:24 pm, Obtenebration <pa...@obtenebration.org> wrote:
> > Looking at the Rules Outline, it would appear that there is no
> > difference in the timing of when the resolution of FD and BR
> > happen -- the only place they can both occur is in IV.E., true?
>
> > I'm not saying that your explanation isn't reasonable -- it is --
> > but it appears that IV.E. could use some sub-phases added.
>
> It does seem that both should happen in IV.E, which would allow the
> acting Meth to order them as preferred.
>
> Maybe a IV.D.4 Section to allow for the playable at the end of an
> action effects.  This puts it in the action after success/failure is
> determined (so FD/Forced March type cards can check) and before the
> action ends which prevents any more action modifiers.
>
> Then E ends the action, which would trigger replacement effects from
> card's like Bum's Rush.

Well, this sort of thing is something that should DEFINATELY appear on
any impending VEKN Updated Site...

Jozxyqk

10/23/2010 10:23:00 AM

0

Kevin M. <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote:
> Looking at the Rules Outline, it would appear that there is no
> difference in the timing of when the resolution of FD and BR
> happen -- the only place they can both occur is in IV.E., true?

> I'm not saying that your explanation isn't reasonable -- it is --
> but it appears that IV.E. could use some sub-phases added.

It is not a timing issue.
It's the "VTES English" definition of the words "until" and "at".

Someone should publish a glossary of words that have very specific
VTES meanings (until, at, during, "tap to"...)

floppyzedolfin

10/23/2010 11:01:00 AM

0

On 23 oct, 12:23, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> Kevin M. <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote:
> > Looking at the Rules Outline, it would appear that there is no
> > difference in the timing of when the resolution of FD and BR
> > happen -- the only place they can both occur is in IV.E., true?
> > I'm not saying that your explanation isn't reasonable -- it is --
> > but it appears that IV.E. could use some sub-phases added.
>
> It is not a timing issue.
> It's the "VTES English" definition of the words "until" and "at".
>
> Someone should publish a glossary of words that have very specific
> VTES meanings (until, at, during, "tap to"...)

I'm trying to get that sorted in a lengthy article about the impulse.
I'll extract some relevant data regarding that and hope the rest isn't
that needed for the extract to be understandable :)

Kevin M.

10/23/2010 7:39:00 PM

0

Jozxyqk wrote:
> Kevin M. wrote:
>> Looking at the Rules Outline, it would appear that there is no
>> difference in the timing of when the resolution of FD and BR
>> happen -- the only place they can both occur is in IV.E., true?
>
>> I'm not saying that your explanation isn't reasonable -- it is --
>> but it appears that IV.E. could use some sub-phases added.
>
> It is not a timing issue.
> It's the "VTES English" definition of the words "until" and "at".

Then the Rules Outline is useless, since it COMPLETELY contradicts
what LSJ just said. Ok.


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.mymin...
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=12974...