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rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Newbie Toolbox? Deck

John Worrall

10/15/2010 6:58:00 AM

Still learning the dynamics of the game, So for me its kind of hard to
judge the quality of a deck... particularly a toolbox deck which to me
is all over the place...

So, my inspiration for this deck is that i just really wanted to use
Isouda de Blaise. Not the best of reasons but im sticking with her.

What i came up with was a stealth bleed deck; which between isouda's
ability/flurry of action/patronage is able to stay untapped to block.
Thinking about it now as i post this... the celerity gun combat
package probably dilutes the deck, might be better sticking to
majesty?

I haven't tested it at all yet, cause id like to know if its even
playable before i go around stealing cards...
Without further ado, heres the deck, rip it to shreds

Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.75
------------------------------------------------------------
3x Isouda de Blaise 7 CEL OBF PRE aus !Toreador:4
2x Suzanne Kadim 7 CEL PRE aus dom obf Toreador:3
2x Creamy Jade 5 PRE aus cel vic !Toreador:3
2x Loonar 4 PRE cel !Toreador:4
1x Antoinette, She Wh 6 AUS PRE cel obf primogen Toreador:3
1x Cristos Mantigo 5 aus cel dom obf pre !Toreador:3
1x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus cel dem obf pre !Toreador:4

Library [80 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------
Action [15]
1x Abbot
6x Enchant Kindred
4x Flurry of Action
4x Patronage
Action Modifier [11]
2x Aire of Elation
3x Cloak the Gathering
4x True Love's Face
2x Veil the Legions
Action Modifier/Combat [4]
4x Resist Earth's Grasp
Combat [15]
4x Blur
2x Disguised Weapon
5x Majesty
2x Nimble Feet
2x Psyche!
Equipment [10]
1x Bowl of Convergence
2x Changeling Skin Mask
4x Desert Eagle
1x Ivory Bow
1x Laptop Computer
1x Sport Bike
Master [11]
4x Blood Doll
1x Fetish Club Hunting Ground
1x Guardian Angel
1x KRCG News Radio
2x Obfuscate
1x Rack, The
1x Society Hunting Ground
Reaction [13]
2x Eagle's Sight
2x Enhanced Senses
4x Forced Awakening
3x Quicken Sight
2x Spirit's Touch
Retainer [1]
1x Mr. Winthrop
14 Answers

G Chan

10/15/2010 9:47:00 AM

0

On Oct 14, 11:57 pm, John Worrall <john.r.worr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Still learning the dynamics of the game, So for me its kind of hard to
> judge the quality of a deck... particularly a toolbox deck which to me
> is all over the place...
>
> So, my inspiration for this deck is that i just really wanted to use
> Isouda de Blaise. Not the best of reasons but im sticking with her.
>
> What i came up with was a stealth bleed deck; which between isouda's
> ability/flurry of action/patronage is able to stay untapped to block.
> Thinking about it now as i post this... the celerity gun combat
> package probably dilutes the deck, might be better sticking to
> majesty?
>
> I haven't tested it at all yet, cause id like to know if its even
> playable before i go around stealing cards...
> Without further ado, heres the deck, rip it to shreds
>

I hope i am getting this right; you are looking for a stealthy bleed
deck with some toolbox elements?
One way for this to be forward looking would be playing with Palla
Grande (+1 bleed to all your !Toreador for 3 turns), use Psychic Veil
(+1 stealth to all your vampires' actions this turn) and swap out
Antoinette and Suzanne Kadim for more !Toreador weenies. Since Abbot
and Patronage requires Sabbat and 2 !Toreadors respectively, Suzanne
and Antoinette looks out of place.

Masters
Drop the two hunting grounds for 2x Perfectionist (ideal for multi-
acting minions). The Rack is iffy, since you don't have that many
reactions.

Actions
Consider some Art Scams for poolgain to mitigate the pool loss from
Patronage.

Action Modifiers
As mentioned, Psychic Veil is useful.

Combat
If you're toting CEL gun, might as well go all the way; drop those
Majesties. Swap out Nimble Feet and Majesty for Flash or Pursuit;
Psyche! (against S:CE) and Side Strike (dodge at cel) depending on
your local metagame. Some Tastes of Vitae.

Reaction

Equipment and Retainers
Swap the D. Eagles for .44 Magnums; unless you have plenty of
maneuvers (Flash, Pursuit) a D.Eagle exposes you to short-range
trauma. Consider J.S. Simmons and Tasha Morgan for perma-bleeds. Not
sure if the Changeling Skin Mask is really useful, but its ok.


> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.75
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 3x Isouda de Blaise       7  CEL OBF PRE aus               !Toreador:4
> 2x Suzanne Kadim          7  CEL PRE aus dom obf           Toreador:3
> 2x Creamy Jade            5  PRE aus cel vic               !Toreador:3
> 2x Loonar                 4  PRE cel                       !Toreador:4
> 1x Antoinette, She Wh     6  AUS PRE cel obf      primogen Toreador:3
> 1x Cristos Mantigo        5  aus cel dom obf pre           !Toreador:3
> 1x Gabriel de Cambrai     5  aus cel dem obf pre           !Toreador:4
>
> Library [80 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Action [15]
>   1x Abbot
>   6x Enchant Kindred
>   4x Flurry of Action
>   4x Patronage
> Action Modifier [11]
>   2x Aire of Elation
>   3x Cloak the Gathering
>   4x True Love's Face
>   2x Veil the Legions
> Action Modifier/Combat [4]
>   4x Resist Earth's Grasp
> Combat [15]
>   4x Blur
>   2x Disguised Weapon
>   5x Majesty
>   2x Nimble Feet
>   2x Psyche!
> Equipment [10]
>   1x Bowl of Convergence
>   2x Changeling Skin Mask
>   4x Desert Eagle
>   1x Ivory Bow
>   1x Laptop Computer
>   1x Sport Bike
> Master [11]
>   4x Blood Doll
>   1x Fetish Club Hunting Ground
>   1x Guardian Angel
>   1x KRCG News Radio
>   2x Obfuscate
>   1x Rack, The
>   1x Society Hunting Ground
> Reaction [13]
>   2x Eagle's Sight
>   2x Enhanced Senses
>   4x Forced Awakening
>   3x Quicken Sight
>   2x Spirit's Touch
> Retainer [1]
>   1x Mr. Winthrop

Juggernaut1981

10/15/2010 10:34:00 AM

0

On Oct 15, 5:57 pm, John Worrall <john.r.worr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Still learning the dynamics of the game, So for me its kind of hard to
> judge the quality of a deck... particularly a toolbox deck which to me
> is all over the place...
>
> So, my inspiration for this deck is that i just really wanted to use
> Isouda de Blaise. Not the best of reasons but im sticking with her.
>
> What i came up with was a stealth bleed deck; which between isouda's
> ability/flurry of action/patronage is able to stay untapped to block.
> Thinking about it now as i post this... the celerity gun combat
> package probably dilutes the deck, might be better sticking to
> majesty?
>
> I haven't tested it at all yet, cause id like to know if its even
> playable before i go around stealing cards...
> Without further ado, heres the deck, rip it to shreds
>
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.75
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 3x Isouda de Blaise       7  CEL OBF PRE aus               !Toreador:4
> 2x Suzanne Kadim          7  CEL PRE aus dom obf           Toreador:3
> 2x Creamy Jade            5  PRE aus cel vic               !Toreador:3
> 2x Loonar                 4  PRE cel                       !Toreador:4
> 1x Antoinette, She Wh     6  AUS PRE cel obf      primogen Toreador:3
> 1x Cristos Mantigo        5  aus cel dom obf pre           !Toreador:3
> 1x Gabriel de Cambrai     5  aus cel dem obf pre           !Toreador:4
>
> Library [80 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Action [15]
>   1x Abbot
>   6x Enchant Kindred
>   4x Flurry of Action
>   4x Patronage
> Action Modifier [11]
>   2x Aire of Elation
>   3x Cloak the Gathering
>   4x True Love's Face
>   2x Veil the Legions
> Action Modifier/Combat [4]
>   4x Resist Earth's Grasp
> Combat [15]
>   4x Blur
>   2x Disguised Weapon
>   5x Majesty
>   2x Nimble Feet
>   2x Psyche!
> Equipment [10]
>   1x Bowl of Convergence
>   2x Changeling Skin Mask
>   4x Desert Eagle
>   1x Ivory Bow
>   1x Laptop Computer
>   1x Sport Bike
> Master [11]
>   4x Blood Doll
>   1x Fetish Club Hunting Ground
>   1x Guardian Angel
>   1x KRCG News Radio
>   2x Obfuscate
>   1x Rack, The
>   1x Society Hunting Ground
> Reaction [13]
>   2x Eagle's Sight
>   2x Enhanced Senses
>   4x Forced Awakening
>   3x Quicken Sight
>   2x Spirit's Touch
> Retainer [1]
>   1x Mr. Winthrop

Crypt
Remove the Toreadors, put in more !Toreadors and try to keep the new
guys fairly low (5s and under).

Masters
Hunting Grounds => Out
Replace them with either a) pool gain cards (Blood Doll, Minion Tap,
Villein, Tribute to the Master, etc) b) intercept locations (Channel
10, WMRH, etc)
Obfuscate Masters should be replaced with Palla Grande.

Action Mods
I'd drop the True Love's Face. With all of that Auspex, Crocodile's
Tongue might be good. If you're going to stick with Obfuscate, put in
a couple of Swallowed by Night (again Stealth and possible
maneuvers). A couple of more Aire of Elations, just to ensure you
have the cards in hand ready to deliver the killing blow when the
opportunity presents itself.

Combat
Psyches are nice, but I don't know. You want versatile cards
usually. I'd recommend Flash before Psyche.

Reactions
Try get hold of Eyes of Argus to replace the Forced Awakenings. If
you're going to keep the DEagles, keep Spirit's Touch. If you're
going to swap the DEagles for .44s, swap Spirit's Touch for
Precognition.

Warning: You are likely to have blood management issues. You don't
really have ways to get blood back, so you may need to swap out some
of the Blurs for Taste of Vitae, just to get you some blood back.

John Worrall

10/15/2010 2:29:00 PM

0

I guess one of the things I am doing wrong here is that im juggling
four disciplines. Presence and Celerity primarily, with Obfuscate and
Auspex in the background. Thus the reasoning for the two toreador
vamps, they have obfuscate(and also the other 3 disciplines).

given the crypt, I wouldn't want to rely on having auspex at superior,
only antionette has it which you are telling me to drop... (thus the
lack of eyes of argus)
Even obfuscate will usually be inferior/nonexistent without skin mask/
master disciplines, which is why i opted for veils/cloak

alternatively i could drop the whole obfuscate angle altogether, but
id like it to work if it can...
As mentioned in the first post, still considering trimming the combat
package down.... maybe to .44s + blur or something like that

Lastly, art scam vs enchant kindred. Is bypassing the limitation of
the rate you pull back blood worth using art scams? I figured the
flexibility of enchant kindred would be favored over it...

brandonsantacruz

10/15/2010 4:39:00 PM

0

On Oct 14, 11:57 pm, John Worrall <john.r.worr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Still learning the dynamics of the game, So for me its kind of hard to
> judge the quality of a deck... particularly a toolbox deck which to me
> is all over the place...
>
> So, my inspiration for this deck is that i just really wanted to use
> Isouda de Blaise. Not the best of reasons but im sticking with her.
>
> What i came up with was a stealth bleed deck; which between isouda's
> ability/flurry of action/patronage is able to stay untapped to block.
> Thinking about it now as i post this... the celerity gun combat
> package probably dilutes the deck, might be better sticking to
> majesty?
>
> I haven't tested it at all yet, cause id like to know if its even
> playable before i go around stealing cards...
> Without further ado, heres the deck, rip it to shreds
>
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.75
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 3x Isouda de Blaise       7  CEL OBF PRE aus               !Toreador:4
> 2x Suzanne Kadim          7  CEL PRE aus dom obf           Toreador:3
Suzanne has obfuscate, but she's big and not !Tor. She might be better
as Redbone(6-cap with AUS PRE). Maybe the other could be Dominique
Santo Palo(6-cap AUS CEL pre +1 str vs nos and !nos)

> 2x Creamy Jade            5  PRE aus cel vic               !Toreador:3
> 2x Loonar                 4  PRE cel                       !Toreador:4
> 1x Antoinette, She Wh     6  AUS PRE cel obf      primogen Toreador:3

Not sure if Antoinette should stay or not and doubling on non-Isouda
minions(you might want 4 of her) could take away from your deck. 1x
Loonar as a Sabrina, 1x Jade as the other Isouda? Crypt variety will
mean being able to bring out more minions, hopefully. Loonar also
doesn't have auspex, but the PRE is really good....

> 1x Cristos Mantigo        5  aus cel dom obf pre           !Toreador:3
> 1x Gabriel de Cambrai     5  aus cel dem obf pre           !Toreador:4
>
> Library [80 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Action [15]
>   1x Abbot
>   6x Enchant Kindred
>   4x Flurry of Action
>   4x Patronage

Abbot is good for this deck, maybe 2 less Patronage, drop flurry of
action because getting blocked at the low(if any) stealth you can
generate ruins it. How about some Mind Numb to tap out either blockers
on your left or future aggressors on your right? That's toolboxy and
powerful. Mind numb someone, patronage, and bleed em out. To that end,
put in some Public Trust. Maybe the final action count should be
something like this(if the number of actions is the same):
2x Abbot
3x Enchant Kindred
4x Public Trust
2x Patronage
1x Entrancement(always good to steal allies, or just bleed)
3x Mind Numb

> Action Modifier [11]
>   2x Aire of Elation
>   3x Cloak the Gathering
>   4x True Love's Face
>   2x Veil the Legions

Veil is kind of techie, I like it. True Love's Face is more for an OBF
PRE bleed deck, I'd lose it because it isn't strong enough with the
crypt. Aire of Elation will be your key action modifier, backed up by
some cloak and 1-2 veil.

> Action Modifier/Combat [4]
>   4x Resist Earth's Grasp

RtEG might be good for this deck, depending on how much combat you
want to play.

> Combat [15]
>   4x Blur
>   2x Disguised Weapon
>   5x Majesty
>   2x Nimble Feet
>   2x Psyche!

Majesty is better than any of this, I'd go with a bunch of Majesty and
maybe a couple Side-Strike and Weighted Walking Sticks(they cycle
easily enough).

> Equipment [10]
>   1x Bowl of Convergence
>   2x Changeling Skin Mask
>   4x Desert Eagle
>   1x Ivory Bow
>   1x Laptop Computer
>   1x Sport Bike

Drop the bike, laptop and guns. The skin mask is good, but unique. 1
copy of that, Ivory Bow, and Bowl make sense. If Cristos shows up,
he'll get you what you need. 1-2x .44 wouldn't go amiss.

> Master [11]
>   4x Blood Doll
>   1x Fetish Club Hunting Ground
>   1x Guardian Angel
>   1x KRCG News Radio
>   2x Obfuscate
>   1x Rack, The
>   1x Society Hunting Ground

Hunting grounds are too expensive, as is Guardian Angel. Obfuscate
master cards aren't really needed if you have Isouda. How about this:

now 15 masters, which shouldn't choke you too much. 5 have no
requirement, so they can be played on your first few turns.
2x Perfectionist(note the great combo with Abbot)
1x The Rack
5x Blood Doll
1x WMRH
1x KRCG
1x Information Highway
1x Barrens
1x Dreams of the Sphinx(card cyling is good)
2x Palla Grande

You could fit in 2x Wider View without much trouble.

> Reaction [13]
>   2x Eagle's Sight
>   2x Enhanced Senses
>   4x Forced Awakening
>   3x Quicken Sight
>   2x Spirit's Touch

Now that there is On the Qui Vive and Eyes of Argus, there is much
less reason to play Forced Awakening. Throw in maybe 2x each
telepathic misdirection and My Enemy's Enemy because you have some
AUS. Eyes of Argus at aus is fine. Don't forget about Precognition,
it's another great card.

> Retainer [1]
>   1x Mr. Winthrop

He's fine, adds to Bowl and intercept locations. Might want to throw
in Scourge of the Enochians to hose 1-2 caps since they can over-run
you or chump block bleeds. I think this all puts you closer to 90
cards(not that decks have to have exactly 90)

What you have in the end is an intercepty, but also forward moving
deck. Going with more combat is an option too, but that makes you less
likely to do ousting, IMO. Beating up your pred is not equal to
winning.

Brandon

Curevei

10/15/2010 5:00:00 PM

0

On Oct 14, 11:57 pm, John Worrall <john.r.worr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Still learning the dynamics of the game, So for me its kind of hard to
> judge the quality of a deck... particularly a toolbox deck which to me
> is all over the place...

A toolbox deck shouldn't be all over the place. Should pick something
as its core strategy and add other elements to reduce matchup problems
that the core strategy may have.

For instance, the reason to toolbox stealth bleed is because you may
be concerned that you can't interact enough with a table and maybe you
add some intercept and casual two-way combat, the former to not get
slammed by miscellaneous actions, the latter to gain incremental
advantage. Reason to toolbox intercept combat is because you may be
concerned at a lack of ousting power or, at least, the ability to
deliver your ousting power and add some stealth to lunge better. Or,
whatever.

> What i came up with was a stealth bleed deck; which between isouda's
> ability/flurry of action/patronage is able to stay untapped to block.
> Thinking about it now as i post this... the celerity gun combat
> package probably dilutes the deck, might be better sticking to
> majesty?

Fairly borderline as a bleed deck. Without Kadim, not a whole lot of
bleed. Looking at 13 cards that increase bleed, only one of which is
a permanent. While that may be not terribly dissimilar to something I
might do, I wouldn't expect all of the Enchant Kindreds and True
Love's Faces to act as bleed cards. Especially with Flurry of Action,
I would think you would be using more permanents.

Intercept plus Majesty is certainly a possibility. Or, you could be
all two-way and go with intercept + Catatonic Fear + Target Vitals.
But, I don't see anything wrong with guns or even some Celerity. The
problem I see is that you are about 50/50 on the two strategies where
I prefer having a less even split.

> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.75
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 3x Isouda de Blaise       7  CEL OBF PRE aus               !Toreador:4
> 2x Suzanne Kadim          7  CEL PRE aus dom obf           Toreador:3
> 2x Creamy Jade            5  PRE aus cel vic               !Toreador:3
> 2x Loonar                 4  PRE cel                       !Toreador:4
> 1x Antoinette, She Wh     6  AUS PRE cel obf      primogen Toreador:3
> 1x Cristos Mantigo        5  aus cel dom obf pre           !Toreador:3
> 1x Gabriel de Cambrai     5  aus cel dem obf pre           !Toreador:4
>
> Library [80 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Action [15]
>   1x Abbot
>   6x Enchant Kindred
>   4x Flurry of Action
>   4x Patronage

I've had some success with Patronage, at least in the long, long ago.
But, if you take out the Patronages, you don't have that many
actions. A lot of your actions aren't that important, either. Public
Trust could replace Enchant Kindreds, though neither synergizes with
your Flurry of Action plan.

If you want some flexibility, consider Entrancement. Not to encourage
more actions, but there's also plays like Mind Numb.

> Action Modifier [11]
>   2x Aire of Elation
>   3x Cloak the Gathering
>   4x True Love's Face
>   2x Veil the Legions

Do you realize how much effort you are going to to support nine cards
that require Obfuscate? The crypt, the Masks, the skill cards - all
for a tiny bit of stealth?

I don't have any problem with the idea of using Obfuscate for stealth,
but then, you probably want to actually be running meaningful levels
of stealth. Veil the Legions is a stealth and a half card, sure, but
how about some Faceless Nights or Swallowed by the Nights or Spying
Missions?

> Action Modifier/Combat [4]
>   4x Resist Earth's Grasp
> Combat [15]
>   4x Blur
>   2x Disguised Weapon
>   5x Majesty
>   2x Nimble Feet
>   2x Psyche!

I'm not the biggest Blur fan in the world. Wait, I have virtually no
interest in Blur. But, I can see where it provides some real combat
pop to the deck. Nimble Feet, though, I'm not seeing the point in.
Pursuit or Flash would make more sense to me. Taste of Vitae would
make more sense to me.

> Equipment [10]
>   1x Bowl of Convergence
>   2x Changeling Skin Mask
>   4x Desert Eagle
>   1x Ivory Bow
>   1x Laptop Computer
>   1x Sport Bike

..44 is more appropriate than Desert Eagle - .44's badassery comes from
how it doubles as combat defense. You should totally test running two
CSMs, a card I consider way underrated as the +2 intercept can be game-
changing. The rest is okay, if not that inspiring to me. I'd rather
run J.S. and Tasha than Laptops.

> Master [11]
>   4x Blood Doll
>   1x Fetish Club Hunting Ground
>   1x Guardian Angel
>   1x KRCG News Radio
>   2x Obfuscate
>   1x Rack, The
>   1x Society Hunting Ground

To me, the point of cards like Changeling Skin Mask is so that I don't
have to waste master slots on skill cards. I'd cut at least one
Obfuscate.

Contrary to most of the comments and my usual advice, I actually don't
have a problem with the hunting grounds. However, if you are going to
play mediocre, long game cards like hunting grounds, I only see the
payoff being if you commit to defense. In other words, this deck that
was intended to be stealth bleed with intercept combat toolboxing that
ended up being about 50/50 should actually be an intercept "combat"
deck that toolboxes stealth bleed. Or, you could just junk the
hunting grounds and run Heidelberg and more bleed permanents.

Add some Wider Views and some other miscellaneous good stuff masters,
like Direct Intervention.

> Reaction [13]
>   2x Eagle's Sight
>   2x Enhanced Senses
>   4x Forced Awakening
>   3x Quicken Sight
>   2x Spirit's Touch

If anything about this deck cries out for major changes, it's your
reactions. First of all, Forced Awakening should be no more than 1-2
copies, if that. There's nothing wrong with WWEF, and On the Qui Vive
is just a better WWEF (frighteningly). As for not wanting to have to
have superior Auspex, you have to have superior Auspex. Yes, I
realize your crypt sucks for it, but you have to have Telepathic
Misdirection. Nothing will be as useful as bleed bounce - not a very
good toolbox that leaves out the 4-way wrench.

> Retainer [1]
>   1x Mr. Winthrop

So, how would I keep it at 80 with the changes I suggest? I'd drop
actions. I'd replace Flurry with wakes, since unblockable untaps are
better than blockable ones. Patronage becomes masters. Nimble Feet
become bounce. Etc.

Alternatively, stick with a more bleed focus and lose much of the
intercept for bounce. Add more stealth, figure out how to get AUS.
Drop the HGs and some of the combat, thin the equipment. Could
(probably should) run Unholy Penance for more bleed.

Oh, and every deck is better with dodgy allies.

Wedge

10/15/2010 5:14:00 PM

0

On Oct 14, 11:57 pm, John Worrall <john.r.worr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Still learning the dynamics of the game, So for me its kind of hard to
> judge the quality of a deck... particularly a toolbox deck which to me
> is all over the place...
>
> So, my inspiration for this deck is that i just really wanted to use
> Isouda de Blaise. Not the best of reasons but im sticking with her.
>
> What i came up with was a stealth bleed deck; which between isouda's
> ability/flurry of action/patronage is able to stay untapped to block.
> Thinking about it now as i post this... the celerity gun combat
> package probably dilutes the deck, might be better sticking to
> majesty?
>
> I haven't tested it at all yet, cause id like to know if its even
> playable before i go around stealing cards...
> Without further ado, heres the deck, rip it to shreds
>
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 4 max: 7 average: 5.75
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 3x Isouda de Blaise       7  CEL OBF PRE aus               !Toreador:4
> 2x Suzanne Kadim          7  CEL PRE aus dom obf           Toreador:3
> 2x Creamy Jade            5  PRE aus cel vic               !Toreador:3
> 2x Loonar                 4  PRE cel                       !Toreador:4
> 1x Antoinette, She Wh     6  AUS PRE cel obf      primogen Toreador:3
> 1x Cristos Mantigo        5  aus cel dom obf pre           !Toreador:3
> 1x Gabriel de Cambrai     5  aus cel dem obf pre           !Toreador:4
>
> Library [80 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Action [15]
>   1x Abbot
>   6x Enchant Kindred
>   4x Flurry of Action
>   4x Patronage
> Action Modifier [11]
>   2x Aire of Elation
>   3x Cloak the Gathering
>   4x True Love's Face
>   2x Veil the Legions
> Action Modifier/Combat [4]
>   4x Resist Earth's Grasp
> Combat [15]
>   4x Blur
>   2x Disguised Weapon
>   5x Majesty
>   2x Nimble Feet
>   2x Psyche!
> Equipment [10]
>   1x Bowl of Convergence
>   2x Changeling Skin Mask
>   4x Desert Eagle
>   1x Ivory Bow
>   1x Laptop Computer
>   1x Sport Bike
> Master [11]
>   4x Blood Doll
>   1x Fetish Club Hunting Ground
>   1x Guardian Angel
>   1x KRCG News Radio
>   2x Obfuscate
>   1x Rack, The
>   1x Society Hunting Ground
> Reaction [13]
>   2x Eagle's Sight
>   2x Enhanced Senses
>   4x Forced Awakening
>   3x Quicken Sight
>   2x Spirit's Touch
> Retainer [1]
>   1x Mr. Winthrop

Cards to remove...

Patronage crypt doesn't support and even if it did more wakes and/or
flurries is better
Changeling Skin Mask obf is good enough
Desert Eagle 44s are better
Laptop Computer better to use free bleed bump Heart of the City or
Tasha
Hunting GroundS Perfectionist is free
Obfuscate skill cards could be DI, Palla Grande, Pentex, Wider View
The Rack

16 in total

I would run one more copy of Isouda and Suzanne since they are the
only vampires that can Enchant down w/ Wider View for crypt cycling.

I like Phased motion Detector one copy.

John Worrall

11/10/2010 8:01:00 AM

0

So I Took in all your comments, but dropped the cel-gun package
altogether, using majesty instead.
Ideally id like to use alot more true loves face, but i didnt have
many so i used stealth in itsplace... After playing a few games, ive
found my pressure really depends on getting the extra +1/2 on each
flurry (the missing loves faces might have helped this). and
defensively, as you all pretty much said, inferior aus simply doesnt
cut it.

So heres the new build... somewhat different i guess... comments
please!~

Deck Name : hurr durr
Author : JRW
Description :
Marthe and Isouda being the co-"stars" of the deck (Malabranca being a
substitute in a pinch), persistently
bleeding for 2-3 while also being able to do other random stuff around
the table.


Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 5 max: 10 average: 7.58333
------------------------------------------------------------

3x Marthe Dizier 10 AUS CEL OBF PRE pro !Toreador:
3 Black Hand
3x Isouda de Blaise 7 CEL OBF PRE aus !Toreador:
4
2x Malabranca 9 AUS CEL PRE PRO obf archbishop !Toreador:
4
2x Dominique Santo Pa 6 AUS CEL pot pre !Toreador:
4 Black Hand
2x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus cel dem obf pre !Toreador:
4 Black Hand


Library [80 cards]
------------------------------------------------------------

Action [23]
2x Abbot
1x Anima Gathering
4x Enchant Kindred
1x Entrancement
9x Flurry of Action
1x Mustajib
2x Patronage
3x Zillah's Tears

Action Modifier [18]
5x Cloak the Gathering
9x True Love's Face
4x Veil the Legions

Ally [2]
2x Marijava Thuggee

Combat [8]
8x Majesty

Equipment [1]
1x Laptop Computer

Master [14]
1x Auspex
1x Hungry Coyote, The
1x Obfuscate
2x Palla Grande
2x Perfectionist
1x Powerbase: Montreal
1x Powerbase: Zurich
1x Rack, The
4x Vessel

Reaction [11]
2x Confusion of the Eye
2x On the Qui Vive
7x Telepathic Misdirection

Retainer [2]
1x J.S Simmons
1x Tasha Morgan

The Lasombra

11/12/2010 5:28:00 PM

0

On Wed, 10 Nov 2010 00:01:18 -0800 (PST), John Worrall wrote:

>
>Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 5 max: 10 average: 7.58333
>------------------------------------------------------------
>3x Marthe Dizier 10 AUS
>3x Isouda de Blaise 7 aus
>2x Malabranca 9 AUS
>2x Dominique Santo Pa 6 AUS
>2x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus


>Library [80 cards]
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Action [23]
> 2x Abbot
> 1x Anima Gathering

Your minions are too big and too expensive to tie them down with Anima
Gathering. Any other source of permanent intercept will be a better
choice.

Curevei

11/13/2010 10:52:00 PM

0

On Nov 10, 12:01 am, John Worrall <john.r.worr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So heres the new build... somewhat different i guess... comments
> please!~
>
> Deck Name : hurr durr
> Author : JRW
> Description :
> Marthe and Isouda being the co-"stars" of the deck (Malabranca being a
> substitute in a pinch), persistently
> bleeding for 2-3 while also being able to do other random stuff around
> the table.
>
> Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 5 max: 10 average: 7.58333
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 3x Marthe Dizier 10 AUS CEL OBF PRE pro !Toreador:
> 3 Black Hand
> 3x Isouda de Blaise 7 CEL OBF PRE aus !Toreador:
> 4
> 2x Malabranca 9 AUS CEL PRE PRO obf archbishop !Toreador:
> 4
> 2x Dominique Santo Pa 6 AUS CEL pot pre !Toreador:
> 4 Black Hand
> 2x Gabriel de Cambrai 5 aus cel dem obf pre !Toreador:
> 4 Black Hand
>
> Library [80 cards]
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Action [23]
> 2x Abbot
> 1x Anima Gathering
> 4x Enchant Kindred
> 1x Entrancement
> 9x Flurry of Action
> 1x Mustajib
> 2x Patronage
> 3x Zillah's Tears

As The Lasombra mentions, Anima Gathering is out of place. Mustajib
only opens up the play of two cards, which are already playable if you
can play this card.

> Action Modifier [18]
> 5x Cloak the Gathering
> 9x True Love's Face
> 4x Veil the Legions

While the point of the deck, I'm not so sanguine on TLF. The inferior
is ordinary and the superior acts much like the inferior in the
absence of some sort of leveraging play. Then, speaking to lack of
flexibility in your stealth package, while Veil the Legions acts as
more than one stealth card, Faceless Night often does as well.

> Ally [2]
> 2x Marijava Thuggee
>
> Combat [8]
> 8x Majesty
>
> Equipment [1]
> 1x Laptop Computer
>
> Master [14]
> 1x Auspex
> 1x Hungry Coyote, The
> 1x Obfuscate
> 2x Palla Grande
> 2x Perfectionist
> 1x Powerbase: Montreal
> 1x Powerbase: Zurich
> 1x Rack, The
> 4x Vessel

Given that you have few pool defenses and unreliable pool gain, I'd
much rather Blood Dolls than Vessels. Even then, I'd like to see some
Villeins or additional Blood Dolls.

Should really be running Heidelberg to increase your bleeds with just
permanents.

> Reaction [11]
> 2x Confusion of the Eye
> 2x On the Qui Vive
> 7x Telepathic Misdirection

The more I studied the deck, the more I understand some of the
ancillary untaps. Zurich, taking back Montreal, Coyote. I don't
think the Patronages and Zillah's Tears are all that necessary, but
they are all part of the plan. But, why so few wakes? Now, the
various untaps can substitute for wakes to a degree, but really, wakes
are just better.

It's actually not that hard to penetrate your defenses. Bleed,
stealth, bounce, no wake to bounce again. I've found that Zillah's
Tears causes people to pass on actions they would normally take if the
obvious untap wasn't in sight, still, it's only so many defensive
untaps, especially too much strain if using Tears to take other
actions.

With a minimal amount of bloat and no particular speed at getting set
up, having better defenses would seem to be the order of the day. I
could see 6-8 Eyes of Argus or whatever.

> Retainer [2]
> 1x J.S Simmons
> 1x Tasha Morgan

There are two general concerns I have. The first is lack of control
elements. Sure, a random Confusion of the Eye will be amusing against
a Parity Shift or whatever, but there's little that can be done about
voting. There's little the deck can do to help or hinder others in
other ways. Suppose a weenie deck is rampaging somewhere on the table
or your prey does horrible things like getting permacept. Maybe it's
just run x2 Direct Intervention and call it a day as there's little
reason to get too far afield.

As for the second: It would be different if the deck were explosive.
In that case, you let horrible things happen around you and you
concern yourself with the "three-player game". But, as you mention,
you are reliant upon your increased bleeds because there isn't that
extra "reach" that Aire of Elation, say, or even Leverage, might
provide.

Distilled down to its essence, this is a stealth bleed deck with an
expensive crypt. As you say, it's a different deck than the
original. Where the original did two distinctly different functions,
there's no longer a real concept of toolbox. If that's desirable,
then it doesn't matter. If the intent was to have a toolbox deck, I'd
look to make some additional changes. Could make subtle changes, such
as Mind Numb, or significant changes, such as Quicken Sights and guns.

rfischer

11/27/2011 12:47:00 AM

0

Richard Steel <rsteel2525@aol.com> wrote:
>On Nov 26, 7:48?am, "6322 Dead, 1465 since 1/20/09" <d...@gone.com>
>wrote:
>> http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/25/police-body-slam-leave...
>> bloody-unconscious-at-wal-mart/
>>
>> Police body slam leaves grandpa bloody, unconscious at Wal-Mart
>
>"Grandpa" is 54 year old. Where was your outrage when a 78 year old

Keep making excuses for your anti-American corporate fascism, asshole.

--
Ray Fischer | None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
rfischer@sonic.net | Goethe