Usa Forum - Uriah Winter Q - rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

floppyzedolfin

7/2/2010 3:09:00 PM

I control Uriah Winter and John Paleologus (let's just say my predator
kindly gave me Uriah previously in the game, to avoid grouping
questions).
I also control an Army of Rats.

My predator ends his turn. I start mine with 1 pool, and my prey has 2
pool.
So Uriah should be taken by my prey during my untap phase.

During my untap phase, I decide to apply the Army of Rats and John's
special ability before giving away Uriah. My prey is ousted.

What happens to Uriah? (burns and returns to genuine controller's ash
heap; removed from the game; stays under my control; is taken by my
new prey; ..)

Thanks,

~~

Army of Rats
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Animalism
+1 stealth action.
[ani] Put this card in play. During your untap phase, your prey burns
1 pool. You may only burn 1 pool each turn with Army of Rats cards.
Any minion can burn the Army of Rats as a (D) action.

John Paleologus
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Tzimisce
Group: 3
Capacity: 9
Discipline: pot ANI AUS CEL VIC
Sabbat Archbishop of Istanbul: During your untap phase, if John is
ready, he may burn 2 blood to cause your prey to burn 1 pool

Uriah Winter
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Caitiff
Group: 1
Capacity: 1
Discipline: for pot
Camarilla: If your prey has more pool than you do at the beginning of
your untap phase, he or she takes control of Uriah during your untap
phase.

19 Answers

LSJ

7/2/2010 3:21:00 PM

On Jul 2, 11:09 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I control Uriah Winter and John Paleologus (let's just say my predator
> kindly gave me Uriah previously in the game, to avoid grouping
> questions).
> I also control an Army of Rats.
>
> My predator ends his turn. I start mine with 1 pool, and my prey has 2
> pool.
> So Uriah should be taken by my prey during my untap phase.
>
> During my untap phase, I decide to apply the Army of Rats and John's
> special ability before giving away Uriah. My prey is ousted.
>
> What happens to Uriah? (burns and returns to genuine controller's ash
> heap; removed from the game; stays under my control; is taken by my
> new prey; ..)

Control is transfered to the ousted Methuselah, so Uriah leaves the
game.

> Thanks,
>
> ~~
>
> Army of Rats
> Cardtype: Action
> Discipline: Animalism
> +1 stealth action.
> [ani] Put this card in play. During your untap phase, your prey burns
> 1 pool. You may only burn 1 pool each turn with Army of Rats cards.
> Any minion can burn the Army of Rats as a (D) action.
>
> John Paleologus
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Tzimisce
> Group: 3
> Capacity: 9
> Discipline: pot ANI AUS CEL VIC
> Sabbat Archbishop of Istanbul: During your untap phase, if John is
> ready, he may burn 2 blood to cause your prey to burn 1 pool
>
> Uriah Winter
> Cardtype: Vampire
> Clan: Caitiff
> Group: 1
> Capacity: 1
> Discipline: for pot
> Camarilla: If your prey has more pool than you do at the beginning of
> your untap phase, he or she takes control of Uriah during your untap
> phase.

Kevin M.

7/3/2010 6:50:00 AM

LSJ wrote:
> floppyzedolfin wrote:
>> I control Uriah Winter and John Paleologus (let's just say my
>> predator kindly gave me Uriah previously in the game, to avoid
>> grouping questions).
>> I also control an Army of Rats.
>>
>> My predator ends his turn. I start mine with 1 pool, and my prey has
>> 2 pool.
>> So Uriah should be taken by my prey during my untap phase.
>>
>> During my untap phase, I decide to apply the Army of Rats and John's
>> special ability before giving away Uriah. My prey is ousted.
>>
>> What happens to Uriah? (burns and returns to genuine controller's ash
>> heap; removed from the game; stays under my control; is taken by my
>> new prey; ..)
>
> Control is transfered to the ousted Methuselah, so Uriah leaves the
> game.

Why couldn't you just order all these "during untap" effects,
so that PreyAlpha dies to AoR and John, and then you'd
be able to "give" Uriah to PreyBeta?

>> Army of Rats
>> Cardtype: Action
>> Discipline: Animalism
>> +1 stealth action.
>> [ani] Put this card in play. During your untap phase, your prey burns
>> 1 pool. You may only burn 1 pool each turn with Army of Rats cards.
>> Any minion can burn the Army of Rats as a (D) action.
>>
>> John Paleologus
>> Cardtype: Vampire
>> Clan: Tzimisce
>> Group: 3
>> Capacity: 9
>> Discipline: pot ANI AUS CEL VIC
>> Sabbat Archbishop of Istanbul: During your untap phase, if John is
>> ready, he may burn 2 blood to cause your prey to burn 1 pool
>>
>> Uriah Winter
>> Cardtype: Vampire
>> Clan: Caitiff
>> Group: 1
>> Capacity: 1
>> Discipline: for pot
>> Camarilla: If your prey has more pool than you do at the beginning of
>> your untap phase, he or she takes control of Uriah during your untap
>> phase.

Aeschere

7/3/2010 7:55:00 AM

Because Uriah states "At the start of the untap phase". You can
normally choose in which order you do certain things as long as they
all go off at the same time. For instance Fame and Vessel. But in this
case you have to apply Uriah's effect at the start before you can
handle off the other effects.

Jozxyqk

7/3/2010 10:24:00 AM

Aeschere <paulwiggers@gmail.com> wrote:
> Because Uriah states "At the start of the untap phase". You can
> normally choose in which order you do certain things as long as they
> all go off at the same time. For instance Fame and Vessel. But in this
> case you have to apply Uriah's effect at the start before you can
> handle off the other effects.

Not sure exactly which question you're replying to (please be kind, quote
what you're answering!), but this is slightly wrong.

The way the untap phase is structured, you do "checks" just before untapping
everything, to record the state of things (Uriah, Bartholomew, Club Zombie,
etc). Then you untap everything. Then you do the 'During your untap
phase, do Y' effects in any order you want. If there's a mandatory effect,
you just have to perform it before the phase ends.

It is NOT parallel to mandatory Actions (hunting while empty, etc) that
must be performed before other actions; that's something special about the
minion phase.

LSJ

7/3/2010 12:17:00 PM

On Jul 3, 6:23 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> Aeschere <paulwigg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Because Uriah states "At the start of the untap phase". You can
> > normally choose in which order you do certain things as long as they
> > all go off at the same time. For instance Fame and Vessel. But in this
> > case you have to apply Uriah's effect at the start before you can
> > handle off the other effects.
>
> Not sure exactly which question you're replying to (please be kind, quote
> what you're answering!), but this is slightly wrong.
>
> The way the untap phase is structured, you do "checks" just before untapping
> everything, to record the state of things (Uriah, Bartholomew, Club Zombie,
> etc). Then you untap everything. Then you do the 'During your untap
> phase, do Y' effects in any order you want. If there's a mandatory effect,
> you just have to perform it before the phase ends.
>
> It is NOT parallel to mandatory Actions (hunting while empty, etc) that
> must be performed before other actions; that's something special about the
> minion phase.

Aeschere is correct. The pool check effect ("Uriah's effect") happens
at the start of the untap phase (card text), setting up an effect that
must be handled during the untap phase.

Izaak

7/3/2010 12:29:00 PM

"Jozxyqk" <jfeuerst@eecs.tufts.edu> schreef in bericht
news:i0n33h$nrs$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Aeschere <paulwiggers@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Because Uriah states "At the start of the untap phase". You can
>> normally choose in which order you do certain things as long as they
>> all go off at the same time. For instance Fame and Vessel. But in this
>> case you have to apply Uriah's effect at the start before you can
>> handle off the other effects.
>
> Not sure exactly which question you're replying to (please be kind, quote
> what you're answering!), but this is slightly wrong.
>
> The way the untap phase is structured, you do "checks" just before
> untapping
> everything, to record the state of things (Uriah, Bartholomew, Club
> Zombie,
> etc). Then you untap everything. Then you do the 'During your untap
> phase, do Y' effects in any order you want. If there's a mandatory
> effect,
> you just have to perform it before the phase ends.
>
> It is NOT parallel to mandatory Actions (hunting while empty, etc) that
> must be performed before other actions; that's something special about the
> minion phase.

Not sure what you're responding to, but that's not what he's saying. Certain
things happen "at the start of your untap phase" while others happen "during
your untap phase". Obviously the former events must be handled before the
latter. Your examples both miss the mark as both Club Zombie and Bartholomew
state "at the beginning of your TURN", not "at the beginning of your untap
phase".

Also, untapping your stuff happens "at the start of your untap phase" (as
per rulebook), and it's actually the first thing that happens before you do
anything else. You can't for example choose to handle Uriah's cardtext
before untapping so she will be tapped when your prey takes control of her.

Jozxyqk

7/3/2010 2:09:00 PM

LSJ <vtesrep@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> On Jul 3, 6:23 am, Jozxyqk <jfeue...@eecs.tufts.edu> wrote:
> > Aeschere <paulwigg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Because Uriah states "At the start of the untap phase". You can
> > > normally choose in which order you do certain things as long as they
> > > all go off at the same time. For instance Fame and Vessel. But in this
> > > case you have to apply Uriah's effect at the start before you can
> > > handle off the other effects.
> >
> > Not sure exactly which question you're replying to (please be kind, quote
> > what you're answering!), but this is slightly wrong.
> >
> > The way the untap phase is structured, you do "checks" just before untapping
> > everything, to record the state of things (Uriah, Bartholomew, Club Zombie,
> > etc). Then you untap everything. Then you do the 'During your untap
> > phase, do Y' effects in any order you want. If there's a mandatory effect,
> > you just have to perform it before the phase ends.
> >
> > It is NOT parallel to mandatory Actions (hunting while empty, etc) that
> > must be performed before other actions; that's something special about the
> > minion phase.

> Aeschere is correct. The pool check effect ("Uriah's effect") happens
> at the start of the untap phase (card text), setting up an effect that
> must be handled during the untap phase.

Semantics, but this is exactly what I intended to say.
I was just pointing out that Uriah's text requires things to happen at
2 different times during the untap phase: the "check" (which must happen
along with other beginning-of-turn effects) and the "execute" (which
can happen any time you want before you exit the untap phase).

jack tm

7/3/2010 7:32:00 PM

So here is the untap phase:

1. Beginning:
- My prey has more pool then me.
2. During:
- Effect of Army of Rats. Prey loses one pool.
- Effect of Paleologus. Prey loses two pool.
- My prey is ousted.
- I gain a VP and 6 pools.
- Prey takes control over Uriah

Let's see. At this point, my prey is my former grandprey. Doesn't he
gets take control over Uriah?
Is he still part of the play?
How can an ousted player take control over a card? Is there a
difference whether someone was
ousted 10 seconds or an hour before?
Does the effect of Uriah have a legal target at this point?
Shouldn't the effect fizzle?

Please clarify.

thanks
Jack

Teeka

7/3/2010 8:38:00 PM

On 3 jul, 21:32, jack tm <jackt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> So here is the untap phase:
>
> 1. Beginning:
> - My prey has more pool then me.
> 2. During:
> - Effect of Army of Rats. Prey loses one pool.
> - Effect of Paleologus. Prey loses two pool.
> - My prey is ousted.
> - I gain a VP and 6 pools.
> - Prey takes control over Uriah
>
> Let's see. At this point, my prey is my former grandprey. Doesn't he
> gets take control over Uriah?
> Is he still part of the play?
> How can an ousted player take control over a card? Is there a
> difference whether someone was
> ousted 10 seconds or an hour before?
> Does the effect of Uriah have a legal target at this point?
> Shouldn't the effect fizzle?
>
> Please clarify.
>
> thanks
> Jack

You almost got it. This is how it goes:

1. Beginning:
- My prey, [player X], has more pool then me.
-> Uriah will, when his effect resolves, [switch to player X].
2. During:
- Effect of Army of Rats. Prey loses one pool.
- Effect of Paleologus. Prey loses two pool.
- My prey is ousted.
- I gain a VP and 6 pool.
- [Player X] takes control over Uriah
-> since player X is no longer in the game, Uriah is removed from the
game instead.

LSJ

7/3/2010 8:54:00 PM

On Jul 3, 4:38 pm, Teeka <teeka_dra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 3 jul, 21:32, jack tm <jackt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > So here is the untap phase:
>
> > 1. Beginning:
> > - My prey has more pool then me.
> > 2. During:
> > - Effect of Army of Rats. Prey loses one pool.
> > - Effect of Paleologus. Prey loses two pool.
> > - My prey is ousted.
> > - I gain a VP and 6 pools.
> > - Prey takes control over Uriah
>
> > Let's see. At this point, my prey is my former grandprey. Doesn't he
> > gets take control over Uriah?
> > Is he still part of the play?
> > How can an ousted player take control over a card? Is there a
> > difference whether someone was
> > ousted 10 seconds or an hour before?
> > Does the effect of Uriah have a legal target at this point?
> > Shouldn't the effect fizzle?
>
> > Please clarify.
>
> > thanks
> > Jack
>
> You almost got it. This is how it goes:
>
> 1. Beginning:
> - My prey, [player X], has more pool then me.
> -> Uriah will, when his effect resolves, [switch to player X].

Correct. Uriah's test (which occurs at the start of the untap phase)
adds the effect

"Player X takes control of Uriah"

to the "during this untap phase" window.

> 2. During:
> - Effect of Army of Rats. Prey loses one pool.
> - Effect of Paleologus. Prey loses two pool.
> - My prey is ousted.
> - I gain a VP and 6 pool.
> - [Player X] takes control over Uriah
> -> since player X is no longer in the game, Uriah is removed from the
> game instead.

Correct.

rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Uriah Winter Q

floppyzedolfin

LSJ

Kevin M.

Aeschere

Jozxyqk

LSJ

Izaak

Jozxyqk

jack tm

Teeka

LSJ

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