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rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

If White Wolf stopped producing sets for VTES...?

librarian

7/1/2010 11:35:00 PM

Aaron Clark wrote this question in another thread, but I thought it
deserved its own thread:

"If White Wolf were to suddenly stop producing new VTES sets, would
that mean that you would have to stop playing?"

best -

chris
15 Answers

J

7/2/2010 1:27:00 AM

0

On Jul 2, 9:34 am, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> Aaron Clark wrote this question in another thread, but I thought it
> deserved its own thread:
>
> "If White Wolf were to suddenly stop producing new VTES sets, would
> that mean that you would have to stop playing?"

Me, no.
Not for the foreseeable future anyway.

-- J

timmy

7/2/2010 1:53:00 AM

0

Personally, no I don't think so.

I already have more cards than I can use anyway. Way more.
Plus some of the sets they produced were..... well, not good.

I think there is enough diversity in the game now to keep it going for a
good long time.

Saying that though, for a lot of other people I think that releasing new
sets certainly keeps interest in the game going, and brings new guys in.
Without new printings of cards, price for old boxes goes up, and it
becomes harder for new players to get engaged in the game, so it would
only really be a matter of time. Look what happened to V:TES when WotC
dropped it all those years ago. It retained a cult following but that's
about it and it killed the game in my area.

-Tim



On 2/07/2010 9:34 AM, librarian wrote:
> Aaron Clark wrote this question in another thread, but I thought it
> deserved its own thread:
>
> "If White Wolf were to suddenly stop producing new VTES sets, would
> that mean that you would have to stop playing?"
>
> best -
>
> chris

Peter D Bakija

7/2/2010 2:41:00 AM

0

In article <i0j8mn$ubk$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
librarian <auctions@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> "If White Wolf were to suddenly stop producing new VTES sets, would
> that mean that you would have to stop playing?"

Of course not. The game survived three years in the wilderness last
time, and would continue to survive again.

That being said, it is never good for a game like this that it stops
being supported. People like new stuff, and it keeps them interested in
the game in the long term. I mean, do *I* need new stuff for this game
to want to keep playing it? Probably not. But if it stopped being
produced and supported, the long term survivability of the game would
likely suffer.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6...

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff

Aaron Clark

7/2/2010 4:30:00 AM

0

Wow, thanks, Chris - a thread in my honor!

I asked the question a little derisively, I admit. I understand the
difference between a "living" and a "dead" CCG. Obviously having new
sets printed helps maintain interest in the game. That said, VTES is
already so huge, I don't think new sets are at all necessary to keep
the game interesting in and of itself. Of course, I didn't play VTES
for twelve years, from 1996 to 2008, so I don't have the same
perspective as more established players.

I don't understand people who want more and more sets to keep
themselves interested. I have the opposite concern. Having new sets
just means that more and more of my older cards lose their
playability. I haven't come close to exhausting the possible decks
using 'just' cards from the Group 1 & 2 sets.

Would cancelling VTES mean that no new players would be interested?
Heck, it's already hard to get anyone new to play it in the first
place. The only new players in our group are guys who played it when
it was Jyhad and who are coming back to the game.

I think VTES will have to be cancelled eventually. There is no more
RPG tie-in. The OWOD material is going to be completely exhausted at
some point. Power creep may be the only thing to drive sales
eventually, and IMO HttB already had a lot of it. I'm not being
negative - HttB was exciting, but what's next? Will they still be
making new sets of VTES in 2015? I don't know. In 2020? I bet
not.

When/if they do cancel VTES, I would love for WW to still do a yearly
reprint set in an LCG model. (Of course, I think Chris already agrees
with me about the LCG thing. :0 )

librarian

7/2/2010 5:44:00 AM

0

Aaron Clark wrote:
> Wow, thanks, Chris - a thread in my honor!
>

Heh. Just thought it a good question, and lost in that other thread,
whatever it was.


>
> I don't understand people who want more and more sets to keep
> themselves interested. I have the opposite concern. Having new sets
> just means that more and more of my older cards lose their
> playability. I haven't come close to exhausting the possible decks
> using 'just' cards from the Group 1 & 2 sets.
>

Yeah, agreed. Would like more vamps to fill out G6 though.

> Would cancelling VTES mean that no new players would be interested?
> Heck, it's already hard to get anyone new to play it in the first
> place. The only new players in our group are guys who played it when
> it was Jyhad and who are coming back to the game.
>

Yup. People aren't interested in the collectible model really anymore -
see below.

> I think VTES will have to be cancelled eventually. There is no more
> RPG tie-in. The OWOD material is going to be completely exhausted at
> some point. Power creep may be the only thing to drive sales
> eventually, and IMO HttB already had a lot of it. I'm not being
> negative - HttB was exciting, but what's next? Will they still be
> making new sets of VTES in 2015? I don't know. In 2020? I bet
> not.
>


And something to consider if WW/CCP pulls support, LSJ probably won't be
rulesmonger anymore (13+ years is enough I think). No matter what folks
feel about LSJ and his rulings, I think no one can disagree that this game
wouldn't still be going if not for his even-keeled hand at the tiller.
Imagine if it was Sean whassisname from WotC at the wheel? Bleh.

> When/if they do cancel VTES, I would love for WW to still do a yearly
> reprint set in an LCG model. (Of course, I think Chris already agrees
> with me about the LCG thing. :0 )

Yup, sure do. It's the wave of the future. Look at the popularity of games
like Dominion. I think most people are just *really* tired of the chase
aspect of CCGs.

best -

chris

Obtenebration

7/2/2010 7:37:00 AM

0

It likely wouldn't change much of anything in the immediate future.
Sure over time the game would start to lose interest with nothing new
being added, but that's still awhile out. My concern would be with
WotC/Hasbro going all Games Workshop on Vthe V:TES community/events.

> > I don't understand people who want more and more sets to keep
> > themselves interested.  I have the opposite concern.  Having new sets
> > just means that more and more of my older cards lose their
> > playability.  I haven't come close to exhausting the possible decks
> > using 'just' cards from the Group 1 & 2 sets.

More sets means more options. I'd wonder if you are in favor of the
old four card limit too. Same concept as it limits deck design and
stifles creativity. New sets add new ideas or at the very least new
variations. Lost in Crowds and Into Thin Air are a great example of
how this can be done. Neither makes the other worthless, and both
have a time where they are the right choice for a deck.

> > Would cancelling VTES mean that no new players would be interested?
> > Heck, it's already hard to get anyone new to play it in the first
> > place.  The only new players in our group are guys who played it when
> > it was Jyhad and who are coming back to the game.

I blame the current players as much as the game for this. As with any
game, once players get a nice group they tend to close anyone else
out. How often do groups that are losing players play in a store?
Advertise in a store? I went to a local store and picked up two
players that day who jumped on the game. One of those new players was
4-ish when Jyhad came out, so he isn't a returning player. Look for
other events. Anyone advertising an OWOD/NWOD rpg sessions that you
could try to pickup a player at?

> > I think VTES will have to be cancelled eventually.  There is no more
> > RPG tie-in.  The OWOD material is going to be completely exhausted at
> > some point.  Power creep may be the only thing to drive sales
> > eventually, and IMO HttB already had a lot of it.  I'm not being
> > negative - HttB was exciting, but what's next?  Will they still be
> > making new sets of VTES in 2015?  I don't know.  In 2020?  I bet
> > not.

All good things must come to an end. Not sure LSJ running out of OWOD
source material is going to be a cause of this. How many of the HTTB
vamps were V:TM community vampires submitted when they were requested
a year or so ago? A quick glace through many of the books I have on
my shelf show unused vampires and ideas that could be turned into
cards. I'm willing to wager no publisher will be the death before
running out of ideas would be.

> Yup, sure do.  It's the wave of the future. Look at the popularity of games
> like Dominion.  I think most people are just *really* tired of the chase
> aspect of CCGs.

We already have a form of this. Aside from the HTTB starters, how
playable were they in general? They act as a nice bridge between a
fixed card game and a ccg. I'd be happy if V:TES continues this trend
of reprinting cards in a set format while also having the ccg side of
it.

>And something to consider if WW/CCP pulls support, LSJ probably won't be
>rulesmonger anymore (13+ years is enough I think). No matter what folks
>feel about LSJ and his rulings, I think no one can disagree that this game
>wouldn't still be going if not for his even-keeled hand at the tiller.
>Imagine if it was Sean whassisname from WotC at the wheel? Bleh.

Do we get to airlock him first?

Martin Tibor Major

7/2/2010 9:30:00 AM

0

On júl. 2, 01:34, librarian <aucti...@superfuncards.com> wrote:
> Aaron Clark wrote this question in another thread, but I thought it
> deserved its own thread:
>
> "If White Wolf were to suddenly stop producing new VTES sets, would
> that mean that you would have to stop playing?"
>
> best -
>
> chris

I have enough ideas left in my head for three years without any new
set. So I would keep playing.

Peter D Bakija

7/2/2010 12:47:00 PM

0

In article
<4c20737f-2030-41db-92e4-bcbdedcaa0cc@n8g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Aaron Clark <aamaclark@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't understand people who want more and more sets to keep
> themselves interested.

That is just how this sort of thing works. People like new stuff. They
like the "collectible" (at least on some level) aspect of the game--I
mean, yeah, VTES players tend to skew demographically differently than
the players of most other CCGs, but still, if they weren't at least, on
some level, interested in the constant flow of new stuff, they'd be
playing Diplomacy or something instead.

New stuff being published keeps people interested. It keeps stuff in the
public eye. It keeps the company that makes the game interested in
supporting the game, as people buying new stuff makes them money.

> Would cancelling VTES mean that no new players would be interested?
> Heck, it's already hard to get anyone new to play it in the first
> place. The only new players in our group are guys who played it when
> it was Jyhad and who are coming back to the game.

Sure, but having starter decks and starter sets helps get people into
the game. Our group got people into the game "recently" off of the 3rd
edition start up, and then off the KoT start up. If you have no starting
point, the difficult task of getting new players is even more difficult.

> I think VTES will have to be cancelled eventually.

Well, sure. But as long as it makes money rather than loses money
(which, all reports indicate is the case for VTES), they can string it
along.

> There is no more
> RPG tie-in. The OWOD material is going to be completely exhausted at
> some point. Power creep may be the only thing to drive sales
> eventually, and IMO HttB already had a lot of it. I'm not being
> negative - HttB was exciting, but what's next?

Any number of things--heck, we had two sets based on a single, weird
made up mechanic (Anarchists). Why not a Bahari expansion? A Kindred of
the East theme expansion (yeah, I know, they are all sorts of stupid,
but you could easily make a set using the theme but not inventing new
rules).

Does the game need 2 sets a year for the rest of eternity? Probably not.
But the longer the game continues to be produced, the longer it stays in
the public eye.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6...

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff

Lainn

7/2/2010 2:38:00 PM

0

I would like to point out on e small thing.

If the set stopped being printed by WW/CCP, we the player base can
follow suit with what the rage player case did, and design and print
our own cards.

If anyone wants further information on this, I can contact Fenris
again.

Cheers,

Lainn Goddard
VTES Prince of London Ontario.
(former rage player)

Peter D Bakija

7/2/2010 2:46:00 PM

0

In article
<1c81e7cf-34f0-4023-867b-82a5d8e6a834@30g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
Lainn <insert.newcharactername.here@gmail.com> wrote:
> If the set stopped being printed by WW/CCP, we the player base can
> follow suit with what the rage player case did, and design and print
> our own cards.

Sure, but really, that never works as well as one would hope--I mean,
like, Shadowfist is still kind of crawling along like this, which is
better than nothing, but having an actual company actually producing
things is far preferable.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6...

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff