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rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

LSJ Outside the Hourglass vs Pulled Fangs

Vincent

6/30/2010 1:12:00 PM

Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
the opposing vampire B to torpor.
Can A play Pulled Fangs? (No effect has been used to set the range to
long)

Thanks

Outside the Hourglass
Type: Combat
Requires: Temporis / Obfuscate
[obf] Strike: dodge.
[tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver.
[TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the
opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at
superior each round.

Pulled Fangs
Type: Combat
Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this minion
inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not
usable by a minion being burned or going into torpor.
Put this card on the opposing vampire, and this minion inflicts 1
point of damage. The victim cannot hunt until this card is removed.
Any vampire(s) may burn this card with two +1 stealth actions. If the
victim must hunt and cannot, he or she goes into torpor. A vampire can
have only 1 Pulled Fangs.
25 Answers

LSJ

6/30/2010 1:45:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
> the opposing vampire B to torpor.
> Can A play Pulled Fangs?  (No effect has been used to set the range to
> long)

Yes, each round begins at close range.

>
> Thanks
>
> Outside the Hourglass
> Type: Combat
> Requires: Temporis / Obfuscate
> [obf] Strike: dodge.
> [tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver.
> [TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the
> opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at
> superior each round.
>
> Pulled Fangs
> Type: Combat
> Only usable at the end of a round of combat in which this minion
> inflicted more damage at close range than the opposing vampire. Not
> usable by a minion being burned or going into torpor.
> Put this card on the opposing vampire, and this minion inflicts 1
> point of damage. The victim cannot hunt until this card is removed.
> Any vampire(s) may burn this card with two +1 stealth actions. If the
> victim must hunt and cannot, he or she goes into torpor. A vampire can
> have only 1 Pulled Fangs.

Darby Keeney

6/30/2010 1:46:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 7:12 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
> the opposing vampire B to torpor.
> Can A play Pulled Fangs?  (No effect has been used to set the range to
> long)

I believe the answer is no.

Outside the Hourglass should create environmental damage in the
prerange step, like Weather Control (though the wording is
different).

Pulled Fangs requires the minion to inflict damage, and environment
damage is not counted.

LSJ

6/30/2010 1:59:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 9:46 am, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 7:12 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
> > the opposing vampire B to torpor.
> > Can A play Pulled Fangs?  (No effect has been used to set the range to
> > long)
>
> I believe the answer is no.
>
> Outside the Hourglass should create environmental damage in the
> prerange step, like Weather Control (though the wording is
> different).
>
> Pulled Fangs requires the minion to inflict damage, and environment
> damage is not counted.

True, but Outside the Hourglass has the minion inflicting the damage.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b483fd...

floppyzedolfin

6/30/2010 2:00:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 3:46 pm, Darby Keeney <darby.kee...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 7:12 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
> > the opposing vampire B to torpor.
> > Can A play Pulled Fangs?  (No effect has been used to set the range to
> > long)
>
> I believe the answer is no.
>
> Outside the Hourglass should create environmental damage in the
> prerange step, like Weather Control (though the wording is
> different).
>
> Pulled Fangs requires the minion to inflict damage, and environment
> damage is not counted.

Damage from Outside the Hourglass is inflicted by the Vampire with
TEM.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b483fd...

echiang777@yahoo.com

6/30/2010 4:21:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 8:44 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
> > the opposing vampire B to torpor.
> > Can A play Pulled Fangs?  (No effect has been used to set the range to
> > long)
>
> Yes, each round begins at close range.


I understand the part about the damage from Outside the Hourglass
being inflicted by the minion (which the other posts discuss).

But I have trouble reconciling the idea that this combo satisfies the
close range requirement. Since this is the phase before range is
determined, it's kind of odd that range is already at close (before
range is determined). If such is the case, would this close range be
sufficient to spread a Vampiric Disease? And that cards like Blood to
Acid and Blood to Water could get slipped in before range?

To me, it seems more intuitive that range is not determined (not
close, not long) at the "before range" step, unless something has
already set the range. (i.e. you could Selective Silence / Shadow Step
the range to close and then use Outside the Hourglass and Pulled
Fangs, but without setting the range, you aren't at close range for
Outside the Hourglass).

LSJ

6/30/2010 5:02:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 12:20 pm, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> On Jun 30, 8:44 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > On Jun 30, 9:12 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Before range, minion A plays Outside the Hourglass at TEM and sends
> > > the opposing vampire B to torpor.
> > > Can A play Pulled Fangs?  (No effect has been used to set the range to
> > > long)
>
> > Yes, each round begins at close range.
>
> I understand the part about the damage from Outside the Hourglass
> being inflicted by the minion (which the other posts discuss).
>
> But I have trouble reconciling the idea that this combo satisfies the
> close range requirement. Since this is the phase before range is
> determined, it's kind of odd that range is already at close (before
> range is determined).

"Each round of combat is fought at either close range or long range.
Close range is the default for each round." [6.4.2]

If one minion maneuvers, the range *is* then long.
The other can manuever to make the range close again.
And so on until no one wishes to change the range again.

[6.4.2] again.

> If such is the case, would this close range be
> sufficient to spread a Vampiric Disease?

Clearly not.

>And that cards like Blood to
> Acid and Blood to Water could get slipped in before range?

No:
Blood of Acid: "before strikes".
Blood to Water: "before strikes".

Chris Berger

6/30/2010 6:30:00 PM

0

On Jun 30, 12:02 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> "Each round of combat is fought at either close range or long range.
> Close range is the default for each round." [6.4.2]
>
> If one minion maneuvers, the range *is* then long.
> The other can manuever to make the range close again.
> And so on until no one wishes to change the range again.
>
> [6.4.2] again.
>
> > If such is the case, would this close range be
> > sufficient to spread a Vampiric Disease?
>
> Clearly not.
>
So... that's a wording problem with Vampiric Disease?


> >And that cards like Blood to
> > Acid and Blood to Water could get slipped in before range?
>
> No:
> Blood of Acid: "before strikes".
> Blood to Water: "before strikes".

I wasn't aware that "before range" happened after strikes.

Henri K

6/30/2010 8:04:00 PM

0

On 30 kesä, 21:29, Chris Berger <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 12:02 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
>
> > "Each round of combat is fought at either close range or long range.
> > Close range is the default for each round." [6.4.2]
>
> > If one minion maneuvers, the range *is* then long.
> > The other can manuever to make the range close again.
> > And so on until no one wishes to change the range again.
>
> > [6.4.2] again.
>
> > > If such is the case, would this close range be
> > > sufficient to spread a Vampiric Disease?
>
> > Clearly not.
>
> So...  that's a wording problem with Vampiric Disease?
>
> > >And that cards like Blood to
> > > Acid and Blood to Water could get slipped in before range?
>
> > No:
> > Blood of Acid: "before strikes".
> > Blood to Water: "before strikes".
>
> I wasn't aware that "before range" happened after strikes.

Blood of Acid and Blood to Water are played at close range before
strikes are chosen. There is no before range step but cards that say
they are played before range is determined obviously override rules
because of their card text. If a card is only playable at close range,
you can't play it until the range is determined to be close.

Pulled Fangs can be played in this situation because nothing has yet
altered the default range, and nothing will, but the combat is already
at an end.

Robert Scythe

7/1/2010 4:50:00 AM

0

On Jun 30, 1:04 pm, Henri K <stealthw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Pulled Fangs can be played in this situation because nothing has yet
> altered the default range, and nothing will, but the combat is already
> at an end.

By this reasoning a Vampiric Disease counter should be passed as well.

Vincent

7/1/2010 8:33:00 AM

0

On 1 juil, 06:49, Robert Scythe <tbel...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 30, 1:04 pm, Henri K <stealthw...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Pulled Fangs can be played in this situation because nothing has yet
> > altered the default range, and nothing will, but the combat is already
> > at an end.
>
> By this reasoning a Vampiric Disease counter should be passed as well.

You get things mixed up.
Eric was pointing out that the VD counter should be passed before
range is determine (and that we could play Blood to Water etc.) The
answer is no, since range hasn't been determined yet.

As Henri points out, when the combat ends because of Outside the
Hourglass sending the opposing minion to torpor, we can check the
range since the "determine range" step is over. And since range is by
default close and hasn't changed, it remains close until the end of
combat.

But maybe you're asking what happens to a vampire with a VD counter
that is send to torpor by OtHG?
I think the Temporis minion should get the VD counter, since we're
still in combat and it's still close range.


Name: Vampiric Disease
Cardtype: Master
Master.
Put a disease counter on any vampire. Each time a vampire with a
disease counter is in combat at close range with another vampire, the
second vampire gets a counter as well. An afflicted vampire cannot
gain blood by hunting. When an afflicted vampire untaps, he or she
burns a blood or, if unable, burns the disease counter. A vampire can
have only one disease counter.