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rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Origins 2010 and beyond

The Lasombra

6/29/2010 2:58:00 PM

> > I want the people that want Origins to do well to post while the
> > event is going on, to drag people in. Hiding 5 days of tournaments
> > in 1 TWD post is a waste of time and effort.

> Certainly, if I was doing nothing but putting my Origins report into
> one newsgroup post and NOTHING ELSE

During the event and for days afterward, nothing else is done.
There are no posts on White Wolf's Forum, no posts on Board Game Geek,
no posts on the newsgroup, no posts on the local forum (Comic Shop
Plus).

The events had 40+ players the first day and never got that high
again.
That loss of players is what I would like to see addressed by better
reporting.

If there was something to tell them what they were missing, dozens of
player reports (from all the newsgroup denizens that are there
anyway), they would be more likely to attend.

If there was something to say, we saw 40+ different decks this
morning, your deck could have been #41, they might be more inclined to
attend.

Every multi-day event should get bigger and better as it goes on, not
smaller when more travelers are arriving.

Saving $100 over the course of a year to prepare for a convention
should not be a concern for any CCG player, as they are hoping to
spend that much or more on cards anyway.
22 Answers

brandonsantacruz

6/29/2010 3:44:00 PM

0

> Saving $100 over the course of a year to prepare for a convention
> should not be a concern for any CCG player, as they are hoping to
> spend that much or more on cards anyway.

Travel costs, hotels, and vacation time/availability are my biggest
hold-ups when considering these events(aside from the usual financial
strain). I wish I could have gone. Promotion is a real sore spot in
VTES so I agree, promote, promote, promote!

Brandon

Peter D Bakija

6/29/2010 3:59:00 PM

0

In article
<c0752fe3-761e-4eb5-b0e8-ae5bc52d7556@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
The Lasombra <thelasombra@hotmail.com> wrote:
> During the event and for days afterward, nothing else is done.
> There are no posts on White Wolf's Forum, no posts on Board Game Geek,
> no posts on the newsgroup, no posts on the local forum (Comic Shop
> Plus).

Yeah, I gotta say, as someone who was marginalized from the process this
year, I kept jumping on the newsgroup hoping that someone was going to
post daily tournament results or something. Yeah, it is hard to do when
you are up to your neck in tournaments and all, but I figure *someone*
has to have reliable interweb access and be willing to post daily
reports. Heck, if I ever manage to get back to Origins again, *I'll*
post some from the computers in the Hyatt coffee shop.

> The events had 40+ players the first day and never got that high
> again.
> That loss of players is what I would like to see addressed by better
> reporting.

I wonder if the 40+ player event (Wednesday possibly?) was the result of
the "I'm not actually paying for Origins and am just sidling in for this
Wednesday night tournament..." effect that seems to be what has happened
in the past. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

> If there was something to tell them what they were missing, dozens of
> player reports (from all the newsgroup denizens that are there
> anyway), they would be more likely to attend.

Possibly.

> Every multi-day event should get bigger and better as it goes on, not
> smaller when more travelers are arriving.
>
> Saving $100 over the course of a year to prepare for a convention
> should not be a concern for any CCG player, as they are hoping to
> spend that much or more on cards anyway.

Yeah, this is completely true. And something I totally agree with. But
as we saw before Origins, there is certainly a contingent of folks
within short driving distance to Origins who just don't want to pay to
walk in the door. Which I think has an impact.

Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6...

"It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"
-Gaff

Jozxyqk

6/29/2010 4:06:00 PM

0

The Lasombra <thelasombra@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Saving $100 over the course of a year to prepare for a convention
> should not be a concern for any CCG player, as they are hoping to
> spend that much or more on cards anyway.

For me, it's not primarily about money.
It's about vacation schedules, work, family obligations and other
side effects of being old.

John Flournoy

6/29/2010 4:10:00 PM

0

On Jun 29, 10:58 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote:
> In article
> <c0752fe3-761e-4eb5-b0e8-ae5bc52d7...@d16g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>  The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > The events had 40+ players the first day and never got that high
> > again.
> > That loss of players is what I would like to see addressed by better
> > reporting.
>
> I wonder if the 40+ player event (Wednesday possibly?) was the result of
> the "I'm not actually paying for Origins and am just sidling in for this
> Wednesday night tournament..." effect that seems to be what has happened
> in the past. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

This is absolutely the case; as noted in other threads there is a
group of players in and around Columbus that show up _only_ for the
Wednesday night tournament because they do not wish to pay for a badge
for Origins (or for a tournament in general.) Every year, there's a
bunch of folks that play in Jay's non-con Wednesday night tournament
and then vanish for the rest of the week. Many of these folks are very
open about their reasons for only playing Wednesday, and this has been
the case with many of those players for years.

No amount of reporting during or immediately after the event will make
any of these players change their behavior pattern; they are already
aware of what they're missing and base their decisions entirely on
their finances.

-John Flournoy

Craig Hartman

6/29/2010 7:24:00 PM

0

I'm going to 2nd Mr. Flournoy.

I live about an hour away from Columbus. Every wednesday, I have a
regular game night that will seat between 5-12 players for 8+ hours of
vtes. This costs me a few drops of gas, roughly 10-20 dollars
depending on what food and alcohol I buy for the night, and the
commitment of my day off. We laugh, have a good day, get some really
good vtes games in, and talk card tech, generally wind up doing
trades, and deck building.

Origins for me includes organizing and making the convoy on time.
Spending 40+ dollars to play on thursday or friday (80 bucks for the
week). Requesting time off work (I'm making up my time off from
origins this year by working 40 hours in three days this week) or
spending vacation days. Getting shafted for food at anywhere in
columbus. Getting shafted on two or three beers that I hope to enjoy
with my fellow vtes players whilst trading game stories and laughs.
And then when the convoy leaves for home, getting back to my car in
newark around midnight, getting back to my home around 1am, and having
to be up at 7am to make the next convoy to origins, or drive myself up
and waste fuel.

Origins holds very few peripheal benefits for me to justify spending
the money on Hotel, Spending my vacation time on an event I only goto
to throw cardboard at, Getting gouged on sustenance and alcohol,
paying to park, paying for gas, paying my entry fees into the
tournaments, and wearing myself down, catching whatever particular
brand of Convention AIDs some basement dwelling mouth breather has
unearthed due to lack of bathing ability, and either A.) Losing money
to attend due to having to give my work hours up, or B.) Killing
myself later in the week to play catch-up for my time missed.

Eff That. Sorry if I come off as "whiney" towards Origins, but the
cost just outweighs the benefits for me. If they had some manner of
"Pay 40 bucks, play in all the events but the draft, and go home"
ribbon, It'd certainly be a different story.

With the exception of the free wednesday pre-origins tournament, I
will not likely be joining you guys next year. If people got
interested in the Ohio Week Of Nightmares thing, I'd be all into
that, and more than willing to offer up use of my communal haven for
my fellow players.


-Craig Hartman

John Flournoy

6/29/2010 7:46:00 PM

0

On Jun 29, 2:24 pm, Craig Hartman <craig.hartma...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Getting shafted for food at anywhere in
> columbus.   Getting shafted on two or three beers that I hope to enjoy
> with my fellow vtes players whilst trading game stories and laughs.
> And then when the convoy leaves for home, getting back to my car in
> newark around midnight, getting back to my home around 1am, and having
> to be up at 7am to make the next convoy to origins, or drive myself up
> and waste fuel.

For what it's worth (and to help inform folks), Origins is possibly
the single _least_ "gouge for food" convention I've attended
(regularly or otherwise) in years.

For starters, the food court at one end of the convention center/
attached hotel basically has standard mall-style-food-court prices; I
pay pretty much exactly what I'd pay to hit any of those places in a
strip mall.

Even closer than the food court to the CCG areas, however, is North
Street Market (a block away) that serves amazing food from a bunch of
small vendors. Some of it is a little more expensive than say a food
court, but the quality is miles better too.

And then to top it off, this year Rio Grande games had a deal going -
buy a Board Game Room ribbon for 16 bucks, and get free burgers/hot
dogs/fries/chicken plus free drinks from 12-2 and 6-8 on Thurs/Fri/
Saturday (plus access to the borrow-board-games-for-free setup.) Maybe
a dozen or so of the VTES players took them up on this deal, and
nobody felt like they were getting anything but a great deal. (Heck,
just the ability to go grab multiple bottles of water/gatorade/juice
regularly was worth it.)

So this year, pretty much nobody paid for food from inside the actual
convention center with jacked-up prices, and pretty much nobody has
done so much in years past; there's just a plethora of available food
options available right nearby.

As for "Get shafted on beer", I assume you mean "I don't like being in
an actual bar and would rather pay grocery prices and drink outside of
a bar." Most (but not all) of the VTES related drinking at Origins is
in nearby bars, so you pay bar prices.

Obviously gas/lodging/getting home late at night is a problem issue,
as is taking time off from work; on the other hand other players
commuted from the Newark area daily and some folks showed up just for
Sat/Sun due to work issues.

> Eff That.  Sorry if I come off as "whiney" towards Origins, but the
> cost just outweighs the benefits for me.  If they had some manner of
> "Pay 40 bucks, play in all the events but the draft, and go home"
> ribbon, It'd certainly be a different story.

Some sort of VTES ribbon deal isn't a terrible idea for the future,
really, although I have no idea how such a thing works with Origins.

> -Craig Hartman

-John Flournoy

Kevin M.

6/29/2010 8:25:00 PM

0

US Championship
-Jay
-Pete
-Messer
-Hugh
-David Tatu


Qualifier
-John Eno
-Rodd Closson
-Bob Joseph
-Connor Bell
-Karl Schaefer
-D. Paul Bowles
-Evan Lloyd
-Robyn Tatu
-Mark Loughman

The Lasombra wrote:
> KevinM wrote:
>> The Lasombra wrote:
>>> I want the people that want Origins to do well to post while
>>> the event is going on, to drag people in. Hiding 5 days of
>>> tournaments> in 1 TWD post is a waste of time and effort.
>>
>> Certainly, if I was doing nothing but putting my Origins report
>> into one newsgroup post and NOTHING ELSE [...]
> [snip]
>
> During the event and for days afterward, nothing else is done.
> There are no posts on White Wolf's Forum, no posts on BGG,
> no posts on the newsgroup, no posts on the local forum.

I am unfortunately unable to post on the WW forums any longer. I have
tried a dozen different ways to get back my account access and nothing
has worked, so I've given up. :P

I know that when I make my post a couple of days after Origins that
others cross-post it to at least BGG and the Ohio forums, so I don't
re-repost it there. I know other bloggers who at least comment on it,
so I don't ask them to post it in the original long form.

> The events had 40+ players the first day and never got that high
> again. That loss of players is what I would like to see addressed
> by better reporting.

That loss of players is DIRECTLY related to the fact that MANY of
those players aren't paying for a $50 badge. I'd have to look at the
Archon, but I'd guess ALL of those are the unhappy locals that Jay was
talking about in that other thread. They all "sneak" into the event,
since Origins doesn't appear to check badges on Wednesday nights.

Jay used to hold the event at his game store but maybe the convention
was easier to get to, so Jay runs it there instead. If they checked,
that event would only have ~25 players.

> Every multi-day event should get bigger and better as it goes on,
> not smaller when more travelers are arriving.
>
> Saving $100 over the course of a year to prepare for a convention
> should not be a concern for any CCG player, as they are hoping
> to spend that much or more on cards anyway.

You did read that thread that Jay initiated earlier, right, about the
thought of not running ANY events at Origins, since the badge price
is putting many of the locals in the mindset of not attending?

I think that if the Ohio players did something like charge $3 for each
event in Ohio, then run an Ohio-championship where the 3-4 highest
Ohio-residents (or players who pay the Ohio-championship fees)
receive a 4-day Origins player badge as a prize. The Spanish Conclave
does such things and it works well for them. I think there are many
things that could be tried, if the local player base has 10+ players
that are willing to sneak into an event but unwilling to pay for the
$50 4-day Origins badge and that is a (or the) player growth problem.

> If there was something to tell them what they were missing, dozens
> of player reports (from all the newsgroup denizens that are there
> anyway), they would be more likely to attend.
>
> If there was something to say, we saw 40+ different decks this
> morning, your deck could have been #41, they might be more
> inclined to attend.

So you're suggesting that posting current happenings on Twitter,
posting decks, etc., on Facebook, having a VTES-Origins page
on Facebook, and asking/prodding people who blog to post about their
current, happening Origins' experiences will generate interest
regarding the event, increase visibility of the event, and possibly
create desire among readers to attend where they normally wouldn't
do so? Perhaps I understand better now that I've thought about it
for some time. You may be right. It certainly couldn't hurt.

Tell you what: for the Origins 2011 event, I will implement all these
solutions as I am able to do so, and I will make an effort to think
about your suggestions when I'm posting and not posting. Fair?


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.mymin...
Please bid on my auctions! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmer...


Kevin M.

6/29/2010 8:52:00 PM

0

Craig Hartman wrote:
> Origins for me includes organizing and making the convoy on time.
> Spending 40+ dollars to play on thursday or friday (80 bucks for
> the week).

The "early-bird" 4-day player badge costs $50, and they had that price
available up until 45 days before the convention. That is VERY close
to the convention for you to be able to obtain a cheaper badge.

> Getting shafted for food at anywhere in columbus.

Then brown-bag it. Others do.

> Getting shafted on two or three beers that I hope to enjoy with
> my fellow vtes players whilst trading game stories and laughs.

What is a reasonable price for a beer?

> And then when the convoy leaves for home, getting back to my car
> in Newark around midnight, getting back to my home around 1am,
> and having to be up at 7am to make the next convoy to Origins,
> or drive myself up and waste fuel.

Then contract to ride with Loughman, John Bell, or with whomever you
are able to find a car space. Or spend that money, or even less,
on floor space with someone who has a hotel room nearby.

> Origins holds very few peripheal benefits for me to justify spending
> the money on Hotel, Spending my vacation time on an event I only
> go to, to throw cardboard at, Getting gouged on sustenance and
> alcohol, paying to park, paying for gas, paying my entry fees into
> the tournaments, and wearing myself down, catching whatever
> particular brand of Convention AIDS some basement dwelling mouth
> breather has unearthed due to lack of bathing ability, and either
> A.) Losing money to attend due to having to give my work hours up,
> or B.) Killing myself later in the week to play catch-up for my
> time missed.
>
> Eff That. Sorry if I come off as "whiney" towards Origins,

No. It comes off as you being whiney towards conventions, your job,
business, people who are different from you, and society in-general,
and perhaps you really don't have all this convention-related anger?

> With the exception of the free wednesday pre-origins tournament,
> I will not likely be joining you guys next year. If people got
> interested in the Ohio Week Of Nightmares thing, I'd be all into
> that, and more than willing to offer up use of my communal haven
> for my fellow players.

Feel free to run an Ohio WON at any time you want. Personally,
I'd like to see such an event run successfully at some other time
before destroying the well-established and well-liked existing event
for nothing more than economic and social issues, or whining.


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.mymin...
Please bid on my auctions! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmer...


Teeka

6/29/2010 9:07:00 PM

0

On 29 jun, 21:24, Craig Hartman <craig.hartma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> This costs me a few drops of gas, roughly 10-20 dollars
> depending on what food and alcohol I buy for the night,

Wait, you drink alcohol there and then drive back the same night?
Shame!

;-)

Kevin M.

6/29/2010 9:24:00 PM

0

Kevin M. wrote:
> US Championship
> -Jay
> -Pete
> -Messer
> -Hugh
> -David Tatu
>
> Qualifier
> -John Eno
> -Rodd Closson
> -Bob Joseph
> -Connor Bell
> -Karl Schaefer
> -D. Paul Bowles
> -Evan Lloyd
> -Robyn Tatu
> -Mark Loughman

Stupid cut+paste! =)

This is not a reply to any post, but rather
part of my big Origins write-up post.


Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.mymin...
Please bid on my auctions! http://shop.ebay.com/kjmer...