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The Price of Liberty

Jean Smith

5/24/2007 3:54:00 AM

Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
<http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
tml?p=2>
Here's a sample of the gloom.
"PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
the deficit had disappeared.
Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
to turn sour on national security spending.
For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
from enemies who would destroy them."

--
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/authors/i...
http://shop.comedycentral.com/Books-by-Guests_stcVVcatId452047VVv...
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America http://www.iava.org...
6 Answers

George Z. Bush

5/24/2007 10:27:00 AM

0

Surely you know without having to be told that the gang who can't shoot
straight, the government of the inept, the incompetent, and the corrupt is not
even faintly capable of that kind of vision. I hate to join your pessimism, but
it's going to require our nation to wake up, rub the Bushsleep out of its eyes,
and elect people to public office who are even marginally brighter than the
current collection of dull buttons to turn our national course around to a
healthier one than where we're headed right now.

George Z.


Jean Smith wrote:
> Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
> and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
> therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
> to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
> of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
> and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
> This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
> America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
> Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
> opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
> who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
> summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
> <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
> tml?p=2>
> Here's a sample of the gloom.
> "PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
> The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
> military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
> to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
> have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
> either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
> comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
> security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
> living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
> attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
> before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
> before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
> the deficit had disappeared.
> Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
> resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
> be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
> money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
> War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
> medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
> be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
> to turn sour on national security spending.
> For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
> of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
> that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
> emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
> be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
> supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
> from enemies who would destroy them."


jimstevens

5/24/2007 12:35:00 PM

0

[Default] On Wed, 23 May 2007 22:54:02 -0500, Jean Smith
<gotermite@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
>and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
>therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
>to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
>of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
>and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
>http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
>This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
>America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
>Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
>opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
>who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
>summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
><http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
>tml?p=2>
>Here's a sample of the gloom.
>"PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
>The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
>military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
>to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
>have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
>either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
>comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
>security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
>living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
>attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
>before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
>before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
>the deficit had disappeared.
>Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
>resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
>be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
>money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
>War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
>medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
>be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
>to turn sour on national security spending.
>For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
>of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
>that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
>emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
>be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
>supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
>from enemies who would destroy them."

This is no difference then how vets are always treated. Read about
how Civil War vets were screwed. They had a special census to
identify them and take some action, when most of then were dead thirty
years later. Nothing changes in how those who fight carry the burden
for life. There are folks here with that little purple momento that
probably have had short end of the stick stories.

The VA is good place to go get killed IMV! Long lines, no beds, no
appointments, staff that does not speak English or is unable to afford
malpractice insure. Docs that are getting practice on vets after med
school so they can go make money with the experience. I have a very
dim view of VA hospitals and the whole system of how we treat vets and
it did not come from this recent war.

I suspect the author of the pieces you post does not give a shit about
vets but are mining their problems for political agendas. Vets have
served as political football for assholes for a long time too. I have
less regard for Huffington then the VA.

Jean Smith

5/24/2007 1:10:00 PM

0

In article <q51b53t61b5kidodmgm8bnlij8n6iu08r7@4ax.com>,
jimstevens <jimstevens@forgetthemail.com> wrote:

> [Default] On Wed, 23 May 2007 22:54:02 -0500, Jean Smith
> <gotermite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
> >and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
> >therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
> >to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
> >of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
> >and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
> >http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
> >This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
> >America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
> >Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
> >opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
> >who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
> >summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
> ><http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
> >tml?p=2>
> >Here's a sample of the gloom.
> >"PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
> >The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
> >military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
> >to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
> >have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
> >either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
> >comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
> >security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
> >living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
> >attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
> >before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
> >before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
> >the deficit had disappeared.
> >Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
> >resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
> >be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
> >money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
> >War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
> >medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
> >be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
> >to turn sour on national security spending.
> >For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
> >of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
> >that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
> >emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
> >be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
> >supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
> >from enemies who would destroy them."
>
> This is no difference then how vets are always treated. Read about
> how Civil War vets were screwed. They had a special census to
> identify them and take some action, when most of then were dead thirty
> years later. Nothing changes in how those who fight carry the burden
> for life. There are folks here with that little purple momento that
> probably have had short end of the stick stories.
>
> The VA is good place to go get killed IMV! Long lines, no beds, no
> appointments, staff that does not speak English or is unable to afford
> malpractice insure. Docs that are getting practice on vets after med
> school so they can go make money with the experience. I have a very
> dim view of VA hospitals and the whole system of how we treat vets and
> it did not come from this recent war.
>
> I suspect the author of the pieces you post does not give a shit about
> vets but are mining their problems for political agendas. Vets have
> served as political football for assholes for a long time too. I have
> less regard for Huffington then the VA.

One of the facts of a soldier's case was being 100% disabled for the VA
while being 20% disabled for the Army. Somehow this implied bad news for
the children, especially the one needing surgery. Anybody understand
that?

--
http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/authors/i...
http://shop.comedycentral.com/Books-by-Guests_stcVVcatId452047VVv...
Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America http://www.iava.org...

jimstevens

5/24/2007 3:08:00 PM

0

[Default] On Thu, 24 May 2007 08:09:32 -0500, Jean Smith
<gotermite@yahoo.com> wrote:

>In article <q51b53t61b5kidodmgm8bnlij8n6iu08r7@4ax.com>,
> jimstevens <jimstevens@forgetthemail.com> wrote:
>
>> [Default] On Wed, 23 May 2007 22:54:02 -0500, Jean Smith
>> <gotermite@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
>> >and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
>> >therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
>> >to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
>> >of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
>> >and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
>> >http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
>> >This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
>> >America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
>> >Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
>> >opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
>> >who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
>> >summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
>> ><http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
>> >tml?p=2>
>> >Here's a sample of the gloom.
>> >"PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
>> >The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
>> >military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
>> >to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
>> >have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
>> >either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
>> >comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
>> >security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
>> >living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
>> >attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
>> >before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
>> >before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
>> >the deficit had disappeared.
>> >Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
>> >resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
>> >be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
>> >money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
>> >War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
>> >medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
>> >be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
>> >to turn sour on national security spending.
>> >For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
>> >of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
>> >that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
>> >emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
>> >be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
>> >supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
>> >from enemies who would destroy them."
>>
>> This is no difference then how vets are always treated. Read about
>> how Civil War vets were screwed. They had a special census to
>> identify them and take some action, when most of then were dead thirty
>> years later. Nothing changes in how those who fight carry the burden
>> for life. There are folks here with that little purple momento that
>> probably have had short end of the stick stories.
>>
>> The VA is good place to go get killed IMV! Long lines, no beds, no
>> appointments, staff that does not speak English or is unable to afford
>> malpractice insure. Docs that are getting practice on vets after med
>> school so they can go make money with the experience. I have a very
>> dim view of VA hospitals and the whole system of how we treat vets and
>> it did not come from this recent war.
>>
>> I suspect the author of the pieces you post does not give a shit about
>> vets but are mining their problems for political agendas. Vets have
>> served as political football for assholes for a long time too. I have
>> less regard for Huffington then the VA.
>
>One of the facts of a soldier's case was being 100% disabled for the VA
>while being 20% disabled for the Army. Somehow this implied bad news for
>the children, especially the one needing surgery. Anybody understand
>that?


I suspect the VA reviewed the files and increased the level of
disability. Happens all the time and is result of medical review. I
have no idea about merits of the case.

It is not an easy process for VA or vets. I know in the past there
have been folks play games to get a free ride on the VA. The VA is
spending taxpayer dollars and is obliged to review cases carefully.
They never have enough money so somebody lays in a bed waiting or
can't get in the door.

I know of people who get in with very flimsey cases and suck off the
public's dollar as well. It is difficult and mistakes will be made.

Jerry Okamura

5/24/2007 5:47:00 PM

0

The burden of any war, is a burden that is carried by soldiers and their
families since we humans started killing each other....

"Jean Smith" <gotermite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gotermite-768AE4.22540123052007@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
> Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
> and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
> therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
> to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
> of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
> and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
> This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
> America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
> Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
> opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
> who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
> summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
> <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
> tml?p=2>
> Here's a sample of the gloom.
> "PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
> The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
> military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
> to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
> have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
> either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
> comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
> security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
> living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
> attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
> before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
> before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
> the deficit had disappeared.
> Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
> resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
> be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
> money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
> War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
> medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
> be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
> to turn sour on national security spending.
> For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
> of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
> that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
> emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
> be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
> supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
> from enemies who would destroy them."
>
> --
> http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/authors/i...
> http://shop.comedycentral.com/Books-by-Guests_stcVVcatId452047VVv...
> Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America http://www.iava.org...

Anonymous

5/24/2007 7:33:00 PM

0

On Thu, 24 May 2007 10:46:52 -0700, "Jerry Okamura"
<okamuraj005@hawaii.rr.com> wrote:

>The burden of any war, is a burden that is carried by soldiers and their
>families since we humans started killing each other....

There have been far more civilian deaths than military deaths in Iraq
and I would wager in most other conflicts as well.
>
>"Jean Smith" <gotermite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:gotermite-768AE4.22540123052007@newsgroups.bellsouth.net...
>> Using examples of fund raising for body armor before deployment
>> and a disabled vet whose children are cut off from insurance and
>> therefore medical care while he waits for unrelenting pain to transform
>> to paraplegia, the Jim Lehrer News Hour illustrated the way the burden
>> of the war is carried by our soldiers and their families. The transcript
>> and video are here: http://tinyurl.... or
>> http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/jan-june07/warcost_...
>> This was used as entry to discussion of The Price of Liberty: Paying for
>> America's Wars, by an accountant with time on his hands, Robert D.
>> Hormats, Vice Chairman of Goldman Sachs (International). He has contrary
>> opinions on leaving the bill for this war to future generations, those
>> who fight it and their families. The Huffington Post offers an extended
>> summary of the book and sharpshooting here: http://tinyurl.... or
>> <http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-hormats/the-price-of-liberty...
>> tml?p=2>
>> Here's a sample of the gloom.
>> "PRE 9/11 FISCAL POLICY IN A POST 9/11 WORLD
>> The government also lacks a long-term strategy to meet future elevated
>> military, intelligence and homeland security needs during what is likely
>> to be a multi-decade War on Terrorism. The vast majority of Americans
>> have not been asked to play a meaningful financial part in that war
>> either. It is often said that 9/11 "changed everything," but when it
>> comes to fiscal policy, it changed little. Military and homeland
>> security costs rose -- as was appropriate. But other than that we are
>> living in a post-9/11 world with a pre-9/11 fiscal policy. There was no
>> attempt to assess whether programs that were considered affordable
>> before the country was attacked, and enjoyed a budget surplus as it did
>> before 2001, were affordable after the War on Terrorism was launched and
>> the deficit had disappeared.
>> Current Iraq War costs are expensive but manageable. However, mobilizing
>> resources for the longer-term. War on Terrorism -- when large sums will
>> be needed for intelligence and enhanced homeland security in addition to
>> money required to replace weapons worn out or destroyed during the Iraq
>> War, purchase sophisticated new weapons systems, and meet the long-term
>> medical needs of thousands of veterans -- will be difficult. This will
>> be especially true because after the Iraq War many Americans are likely
>> to turn sour on national security spending.
>> For Alexander Hamilton, paying off Revolutionary War debt was the "price
>> of liberty." Today that price involves maintaining a sound fiscal policy
>> that gives the president and Congress flexibility to meet future
>> emergency needs and enables the country to rebound quickly should there
>> be another attack, while giving Americans a more personal role in
>> supporting the continuing high cost of protecting our nation's liberties
>> from enemies who would destroy them."
>>
>> --
>> http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/authors/i...
>> http://shop.comedycentral.com/Books-by-Guests_stcVVcatId452047VVv...
>> Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America http://www.iava.org...