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Re: DMA, is it valuable?

Dick Cheney

6/11/2016 5:34:00 PM

On Friday, June 10, 2016 at 1:42:38 PM UTC-5, Tommy Grand wrote:
> Thoughts?
>
> Is it easier to get a faculty job with a PhD, or a DMA. And does it really elevate your playing.

No. It's horribly expensive and one's chances of getting a faculty job (other than adjunct) are slim...the pay is horrible.
I went through this with my daughter
21 Answers

Douglas Seth

6/11/2016 11:39:00 PM

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If you are good, you will get your MM and DMA for pretty much free. It is a time investment at that point. As others have already said, the field saturated and a full time academic gig is not the pot of gold many imagine. Many times newly minted DMA students are stuck teaching uninspired, lazy students in small college programs. At this point for 99% of graduates, music will be a entrepreneurial adventure (which can be very satisfying) or they will leave the field entirely by 40. My 2 cents...

Andrew Schulman

6/12/2016 12:35:00 AM

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On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 7:39:04 PM UTC-4, dougla...@gmail.com wrote:
> ...At this point for 99% of graduates, music will be a entrepreneurial adventure (which can be very satisfying) or they will leave the field entirely by 40. My 2 cents...

A friend of mine from college, also a music major, would see each other every few years and he knew a lot of people. A lot were gone by 30, most by 40, the few still in it after that generally are still in it, we're now in our mid 60s.

Andrew

Dick Cheney

6/12/2016 12:25:00 PM

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On Saturday, June 11, 2016 at 6:39:04 PM UTC-5, dougla...@gmail.com wrote:
> If you are good, you will get your MM and DMA for pretty much free. It is a time investment at that point. As others have already said, the field saturated and a full time academic gig is not the pot of gold many imagine. Many times newly minted DMA students are stuck teaching uninspired, lazy students in small college programs. At this point for 99% of graduates, music will be a entrepreneurial adventure (which can be very satisfying) or they will leave the field entirely by 40. My 2 cents...

A Free MM is a lot easier to obtain than a free DMA. If you don't get a free Doctorate (and let's not ignore opportunity costs) one can easily expect to pay around $100,000. It's almost impossible to justify economically. Not to mention people with doctorates in humanities are a dime a dozen.
One can continue lessons privately, and you teach kids with a MM.
A DMA isn't necessary for performance.

Douglas Seth

6/12/2016 12:37:00 PM

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Hi Wolly,
I don't necessarily disagree with anything you say. I have many times advised students not to accrue any student debt to obtain a music degree. Every musician I know with a DMA (as far as I know) went for free/tuition waivers.. And to be fair, I teach adults and college students too sometimes, but kids are a lot more fun. I play pretty regularly and have done two recordings in the past 2 years. I feel my MM (which was free) was put to good use. However, economically, times have changed.

Doug

Douglas Seth

6/12/2016 12:48:00 PM

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Wolly,
In fact, some people leave their doctoral program worse players than when they went in. I agree, a DMA isn't necessary for anything unless you are hell bent on working for 'the man' and teaching at a university. Nothing wrong with teaching at a university, but it isn't for everyone. The brass ring for CG graduates seems to be the full time academic position at any level. With my lowly MM, I held one for almost a decade before I quit and this year was offered another one at a private institution. If you are competent at teaching and playing, usually things work out. Without that DMA, forget about a full time university gig. You should probably forget about it with a DMA! :)

Dick Cheney

6/12/2016 2:30:00 PM

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On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 7:47:41 AM UTC-5, dougla...@gmail.com wrote:
> Wolly,
> In fact, some people leave their doctoral program worse players than when they went in. I agree, a DMA isn't necessary for anything unless you are hell bent on working for 'the man' and teaching at a university. Nothing wrong with teaching at a university, but it isn't for everyone. The brass ring for CG graduates seems to be the full time academic position at any level. With my lowly MM, I held one for almost a decade before I quit and this year was offered another one at a private institution. If you are competent at teaching and playing, usually things work out. Without that DMA, forget about a full time university gig. You should probably forget about it with a DMA! :)

That was my conclusion, too.

Andrew Schulman

6/12/2016 5:39:00 PM

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On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:24:35 AM UTC-4, wollybird wrote:
> A DMA isn't necessary for performance.

I've been playing professionally for forty years. I've never once had a presenter or anyone associated with a performance venue ask about academic credentials, and that includes a great many concerts both solo and with my quintet.

Andrew

Dick Cheney

6/12/2016 6:30:00 PM

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On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-5, Andrew Schulman wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:24:35 AM UTC-4, wollybird wrote:
> > A DMA isn't necessary for performance.
>
> I've been playing professionally for forty years. I've never once had a presenter or anyone associated with a performance venue ask about academic credentials, and that includes a great many concerts both solo and with my quintet.
>
> Andrew

I wouldn't think so. You can either play or you can't.

Andrew Schulman

6/12/2016 10:51:00 PM

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On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 2:29:41 PM UTC-4, wollybird wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-5, Andrew Schulman wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:24:35 AM UTC-4, wollybird wrote:
> > > A DMA isn't necessary for performance.
> >
> > I've been playing professionally for forty years. I've never once had a presenter or anyone associated with a performance venue ask about academic credentials, and that includes a great many concerts both solo and with my quintet.
> >
> > Andrew
>
> I wouldn't think so. You can either play or you can't.

It's a given that you can play well, can do successful concerts. Everyone you're competing with can. They decide on who to hire on whether or not their audience likes what you have to offer, and therefore if you'll fill seats.. If they hire people who don't fill seats they lose they're job. It's assumed that you had a lot of training and worked hard. Those things don't remotely enter the picture in terms of getting work, nobody asks you where you went to school and what degrees, if any, you have.

Andrew

dsi1

6/12/2016 11:29:00 PM

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On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 12:50:56 PM UTC-10, Andrew Schulman wrote:
> On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 2:29:41 PM UTC-4, wollybird wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-5, Andrew Schulman wrote:
> > > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:24:35 AM UTC-4, wollybird wrote:
> > > > A DMA isn't necessary for performance.
> > >
> > > I've been playing professionally for forty years. I've never once had a presenter or anyone associated with a performance venue ask about academic credentials, and that includes a great many concerts both solo and with my quintet.
> > >
> > > Andrew
> >
> > I wouldn't think so. You can either play or you can't.
>
> It's a given that you can play well, can do successful concerts. Everyone you're competing with can. They decide on who to hire on whether or not their audience likes what you have to offer, and therefore if you'll fill seats. If they hire people who don't fill seats they lose they're job. It's assumed that you had a lot of training and worked hard. Those things don't remotely enter the picture in terms of getting work, nobody asks you where you went to school and what degrees, if any, you have.
>
> Andrew

I saw my classmate from high school and he's a happy camper. He plays keyboard with some guys to make a few bucks. He also plays with a big band of old guys. These guys are veterans of the music scene. They'll do it for $20 a gig. They do it because they love playing and want to keep their chops up. My guess is that they're happy because they don't have to do it for the money. That's the way it is in my town. The whole music scene has changed. Don't become a professional musician would be my advice.

I was alarmed when I heard that the guy who asked me to teach him the guitar back in 70 had quit his job as a loan broker to become a professional musician. Evidently, I was too successful at showing him the possibilities of the guitar. What a putz.